Papa Smurf is finally back on track - OH NO! NOT AGAIN!, ...EDIT: it happened again!!! Options

[db9146]

Bob, I have no advice for you as far as Papa Smurf goes....but I can say that with all of this going it, it is astounding that you have taken the time and effort to out of your schedule to put towards the Okteenerfest 2015! THANK YOU very much for your efforts!!

[rick 918-S]

Go big Bob. Shit happens. Find a new engine builder or learn how to build your own.

I've lost 3 928 euro "S" engines in the Alien to a mystery broken cam. The end of the cam broke just behind the gear but before the threaded bore allowing the end of the cam to rotate out of phase. Something you would never look for as I never had to disassemble the cams. One engine broke the second it fired after install. Talk about a sick sinking feeling! No one to blame but myself as I built the engines. It was an expensive mistake. The last engine is still running. We drove a remote prairie two lane in Wyoming. The speedo at 140 mph at times but never under triple digits for 40 miles. Try that for a rush! The day you light either car off with that fresh engine you'll forget all about the cold hard cash.

Set up a clean table when you get home and start the tear down. Lets see what happened.

[Wdunster]

We are in Cornelius, just North of Charlotte.

Really? PM me where. We are really close to Huntersville. We should get together sometime or I'll stop by.. You know Lou at Exclusive Motorwerks or John at Black Forest?

Yep. Small world. I will PM you.

Hey don't forget about me! I always like finding other 914 guys
B
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[naro914]

Set up a clean table when you get home and start the tear down. Lets see what happened.

THAT is certainly not happening. Nadine is adamant to sell it all...car, trailer, spares, everything. Unfortunately this stretch has beaten me down so much I'm almost right there with her. Even last night we ended up in a fight about it because I even MENTIONED wanting to put the wing and splitter back on that I took off for the Hawk race.

Plus...if the time does come that we get over it and DO decide to rebuild, there's no way I should be the one looking at it. I would rather an expert go through it. There is something not obvious going on here. Lou has built dozens of street engines that don't have issues, something weird is going on with this engine. But what could it be??

This last time around, just about everything was replaced...seriously, the only things NOT NEW are the intake and ECU. Heck, even the cam housings are new!!

Building a street engine is one thing...anyone can do that. Building a high hp reliable air cooled race engine is an art and very few guys can do it right. Unfortunately I've learned the hard way...

[naro914]

OH NO....NOT AGAIN!!!

I worked with Lou to help him get his business up and running, to get him out of a bunch of legal issues he was getting himself into, to renegotiate contracts so his equipment didn't get repossessed, I introduced him to lawyers and accountants to take care of him and his issues. I brought in a bunch of customers and helped him grow his business....all I was looking for was a car that ran reliably. Unfortunately, I was being too loyal to a 'friend' who obviously was in a bit over his head with our car. My bad...

This almost always leads to disappointment. When you help out a friend to this level, you will almost certainly lose them. I know you had a similar experience with another shop a couple of years ago.

I have similar experiences...and, they have ended the same.

You and Nadine are business people....treat it as such. Get focused. You know what jobs on your car you are willing to do and what you aren't. For the work you won't or can't do, find the BEST, pay the price, and enjoy the results. Don't be led astray by friends or friends of friends...it's YOUR MONEY (and, potentially, YOUR LIFE).

It sounds trite; but, you know it's better to pay more upfront for quality work. You could have probably had two top quality motors for the money you have sunk into rework. Regroup mentally, shrug it off, and move forward. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten” – Benjamin Franklin

The problem here is that I thought I WAS going the better route and WAS paying for quality work. Previously, we went the 'cheap' route and got what we paid for. In many ways, these past 3 years we went the 'no expense spared' route with Lou and still got screwed. I've seen Lou build dozens of engines, but if I'm honest with myself, ours is pretty much the only full race engine he's ever done, and the ONLY 914 he did major work on. Each failure we blamed on a different issue: low oil, crimped oil line, weak rod, etc. But each time the same result. I am not a mechanic and when a supposed 'expert' tells you something and you trust him, you tend to go with what he says.

But yes, shame on me for putting loyalty before (what now is hindsight) common sense. One of the problems was that the only guy I really believe can make this work - Peter Dawe - is 8 hours away. Lou was easier...but easier is obviously not always better...

Funny (ok, sick funny) side note: Lou the other day posted a picture of a car at the dyno with a newly built race engine he just finished on his shops Facebook page. Nadine posted "Hope that engine lasts longer than ours" and he immediately deleted the post....Also deleted Ali Dunsters post about it....shocking...

[naro914]

Using up all my vacation time to take care of my daughter after surgery and its to far away to drive my. 1.7. Next year hopefully with a 3.2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Absolutely family care comes first. Sorry you can't make it but we completely understand. Hope she recovers well!!

[JFJ914]

THAT is certainly not happening. Nadine is adamant to sell it all...car, trailer, spares, everything. Unfortunately this stretch has beaten me down so much I'm almost right there with her. Even last night we ended up in a fight about it because I even MENTIONED wanting to put the wing and splitter back on that I took off for the Hawk race.

You and Nadine are at a dangerous point. No car, no motorsport, no nothing is worth more than your relationship with Nadine. Put the cars away until you both can laugh about this disaster.

I saw you guys just after you came in at Road Atlanta and later at the pub and you two were not in a good place. Find that good place again.

[JRust]

I had a pretty shitty run myself with my 914. I know how it goes & while my issues were a little different. I know where you are coming from. Definitely take some time away & just let both of you relax. This is one of those things any time you think of it will instantly bring up harsh feelings. You've got to find a way around that before doing anything. Might even mean selling but if done to quickly you may regret it. Just take some time & the right decision will come. Good luck bud & keep your chin up

[campbellcj]

Building a street engine is one thing...anyone can do that. Building a high hp reliable air cooled race engine is an art and very few guys can do it right. Unfortunately I've learned the hard way...

That was pretty much the hard lesson I learned too, 2011-2013. $20K+ down the drain...well not totally as I did get some very fun times out of that first 2.7 build. But, it was a hot-rodded street engine, not a race engine. You do not cruise or coast on the track. The engine needs to handle continuous high RPMs, temperatures, and G-loads in all 3 dimensions. That one did not.

The second time around I used an extremely experienced builder/machinist/racer and, hopefully, the right parts. Little was re-used from the first engine besides the crank (x-rayed etc), pistons, and heads (extensively optimized flow and all new race valve-gear). This guy had similar shop and personal issues to your guy though, so the experience turned into a nightmare but I do have continued confidence in his workmanship.

Good luck to you and Nadine in figuring-out what is best for your relationship and hobby.

[blabla914]

The other issue is...like all of us here, we keep trying to fix a 40 year old car. Sure a lot of it is newer technology, but in the end it's a 40 year old car that has been so modified it doesn't fit competitively into any race classes. We can't compete with the spending race that is PCA GT classes, it's not really competitive as an SCCA GT2 class car, and it's not vintage legal...so what do I do with it? If it's just for DE or to "participate" with no chance to compete, does it make sense to spend the kind of money and effort we have???
[/quote]
Sorry for the bad times Bob. Unfortunately when a car gets that modified you are basically running your own development effort. That's a lot of work and a lot of money.
We are amateurs. This is supposed to be fun. I think you have already answered your final question. No, it doesn't.
I don't suppose you have the old engine you took out? Lots of options really, but reliability has to be number one.

Kelly

[campbellcj]

^^^ As I understand, that is one reason Roger Sheridan stopped actively racing his purple hippy-themed "914". It was no longer really a 914 and may not even be considered a Porsche depending on the rules and personalities involved. So then you have essentially a custom one-off car that is a frankenstein of 40+ year-old technology mixed with later bits, and you get classed with modern GT3's and whatnot.

I am somewhat in that boat too with my extensive mods (but not nearly as extreme), and right now am running in an empty POC class. Winning never sucks but is it really winning when there's no direct competition? So I need to either bounce into a GT class and/or go vintage, and will likely be totally non-competitive in either but will be more challenged and perhaps have more fun.

[brant]

A 914 can be pretty competitive in vintage fellas.

[crash914]

I feel your pain. many $$ into a race motor, then nothing...I am hoping i can salvage something. at least 1 head.

see if you can obtain a stock 3.2 or 3.6 and just run it. That's what I am thinking, only with a 4 cyl. something reliable first, have fun then tweek it. I just can't afford the pain and $$...good luck! the women always want to give away the car...for pennies...rebuild and make it stronger!

[914_teener]

A 914 can be pretty competitive in vintage fellas.

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[blabla914]

Bob, I have a story for you. A friend of a friend, I wish I could remember his name, here in CT had a GT class 914 with a Dawe motor in it. Full race car, different, but just as radical as Papa Smurf.
I was at my friends kid's birthday party and this guy is his dad's neighbor. Of course I drove my 914 to the party and some other interesting stuff showed up so we are all out in the driveway talking and then we went to his garage and checked out his racer. Now I hadn't met him before, but he's real good friends with my buddy's dad (they share the garage) and we start talking about all kinds of stuff. Plus we have all had a few beers, especially him since he didn't have to drive home.
He tells us that motor runs like a banshee with no problems, but it was a big mistake. Before this motor he had a warmed up 3.0L that he ran for several seasons till it gave up. He had the best time gobbling up track time whenever and however he could. While the new motor was on a totally different level performance wise, it was a ton of money and he was looking at 40 hr life. Now he was a lot more selective about where he ran, short shifted in practice, and generally worried about what he would do if it broke. Last summer I saw the car was up for sale.
More is always better until it's too much. Your car weighs what, 2100lbs wet? You put a warmed up 3.2 in that thing it'll still be a blast to drive. My friend Eric Valedeserra had a warmed up 3.2 in a 914 and he ran it for years on the track doing double duty with his son. Sadly it outlasted the car!
I understand this car was originally owned by a family member, so I'm sure you are not crazy about selling it. Here's an idea. Pull apart that high dollar motor you've got and sell off whatever isn't damaged. Or maybe find someone who will buy it as is. That might pay for quite a bit of a warmed up 3.0 or 3.2.
Go have fun.

Kelly

[ChrisFoley]

If you decide to move forward with the car in the future, contact Henry Schmidt at Supertec.
It would be well worth the crating and shipping expense to have Henry work on your race engine.

[Chris Pincetich]

Bummer!
I always enjoy reading the latest (miss)adventures of Huey and Papa Smurf (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

But now.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Hopefully soon... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif)

I hear Brant's advice. Wheel to wheel in vintage racing has always sounded so cool to me, and one of those 914s could be brought to fit into a class there, I would think. And if wheel to wheel is the goal, and Porsche is the marque, then the spec Boxter scene is a great place to be. I'd own a Boxter if I could afford it! A 914 is pretty awesome in the mean time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Good luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wndsrfr]

Bob--I was at the RA event in March when your trans screwed up--real bummer for sure. Behind the scenes, my trans was being destroyed at the same event. Lube failure in the frosty cold, shipped it off to Dr. Evil, everything replaced. Also replaced flywheel & clutch, 3 months to get it back together. So, another 3 grand "invested" in my hobby that Bev isn't real enthusiastic about to say the least.

That said, Hmmmm....Papa Smurf, Huey, Nadine...Papa Smurf, Huey, Nadine.....
Ummmm......Keep Nadine--she's the real jewel!

[campbellcj]

And if wheel to wheel is the goal, and Porsche is the marque, then the spec Boxter scene is a great place to be. I'd own a Boxter if I could afford it! A 914 is pretty awesome in the mean time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In my experience we are at the point where a Spec Boxster is cheaper than a modified 914 or aircooled 911, to both buy/build as well as operate. That's really the intent of the class. Blow an engine or trans...couple grand at the junkyard gets you another one. Tires are spec DOT-R and relatively small. Race fuel not required...

Andrew Weyman (president of POC) has a fairly competitive BSR for sale right now. He's asking $25K and that may even include a trailer, IIRC.

It is a compelling idea and I thought about it fairly seriously when my 914 was apart for a couple years eating 5-figure checks for lunch. But, I love the raw 914 and aircooled -6 experience enough where I stayed the course.

[Larmo63]

It's actually easy to 'friend' Exclusive Motorwerks on Facebook and comment on the dyno post.

I guess I'm just a smartass and feel bad for you guys.