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> New item to work on. Guys with carbs what do you think?, phenolic spacers
lonewolfe
post Dec 17 2014, 03:52 PM
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Hey Mark!

I'm in for a set of four!
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Woody
post Dec 17 2014, 03:55 PM
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I'd be in for a set as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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Mark Henry
post Dec 17 2014, 05:13 PM
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QUOTE(JmuRiz @ Dec 17 2014, 04:27 PM) *

I'll need some for my /6 conversion...not sure where's the best place to get 'em though.


I think the IDA pattern is different than the IDF so these may not work on /6 carbs.

I made mine but they go on the bottom of the manifold, to go this route if you have FI pockets you have to use PMO manifolds. You can get phenolic spacers from PMO, they may come with manifolds.
Stock manifolds don't have enough meat on the base and they will leak over time. I got around this by making aluminum spacers as well. This also helped raise the bottom of the manifold making it fit the shroud better.

I can only find this pic and it's the wrong way. The aluminum spacer should be on the bottom.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-26-1392597442.jpg)

BTW it would be hard for Mark to offer these as he would have to stock a whole bunch of different sizes.
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roblav1
post Dec 17 2014, 05:28 PM
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PMO makes these for the /6.

Oooops.... I see Mark just said that. I've made the same aluminum spacers for the FI port too.
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Mikey914
post Dec 17 2014, 05:59 PM
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I had planned on doing the IDF, but as long as the IDA is covered no need to go there.
Mark
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ThePaintedMan
post Dec 17 2014, 06:08 PM
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FYI, the Dellortos use the same bolt pattern and bases as Webers IDFs, so if anyone has Dells, these work for you too. Support Mark, an awesome vendor!
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r_towle
post Dec 17 2014, 06:44 PM
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Just curious.
I have used just the head-->>manifold phenolic spacer and I have never had any heat issues on the manifolds or carbs.
Sure, there is some heat from the studs, but never enough to make a big difference.

Also, with these added gaskets, you are moving the throttle plate further away from the valve which does have a negative result.

So, why add these?

Rich
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JmuRiz
post Dec 17 2014, 07:58 PM
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Great info guys, thanks. If I still had my carb'd /4 I'd grab a set in a heartbeat.
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Mike Bellis
post Dec 17 2014, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ Dec 17 2014, 04:44 PM) *

Just curious.
I have used just the head-->>manifold phenolic spacer and I have never had any heat issues on the manifolds or carbs.
Sure, there is some heat from the studs, but never enough to make a big difference.

Also, with these added gaskets, you are moving the throttle plate further away from the valve which does have a negative result.

So, why add these?

Rich

Any time you can get heat away from the carb is a good thing. Could be worth 1-2hp by cooling the intake air more than just the head spacer.
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lonewolfe
post Dec 17 2014, 08:41 PM
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When using these spacers are gaskets used above and below the spacer?
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ThePaintedMan
post Dec 17 2014, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Dec 17 2014, 09:41 PM) *

When using these spacers are gaskets used above and below the spacer?


Yes, one above and one below. Multiply by 4 barrels = 8 individual gaskets.
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michael7810
post Dec 18 2014, 11:43 AM
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I'm in for a set of 4. Thanks
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maf914
post Dec 19 2014, 06:22 AM
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Mark, I'm in for two sets. I second the request for gaskets as well. Thanks as always.
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pilothyer
post Dec 19 2014, 08:08 AM
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In for set of 4 and 8 gaskets (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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bdstone914
post Dec 19 2014, 08:24 AM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ Dec 17 2014, 06:44 PM) *

Just curious.
I have used just the head-->>manifold phenolic spacer and I have never had any heat issues on the manifolds or carbs.
Sure, there is some heat from the studs, but never enough to make a big difference.

Also, with these added gaskets, you are moving the throttle plate further away from the valve which does have a negative result.

So, why add these?

Rich


Rich
What is the negative result and how is it any different than adding tall manifolds that are better for top end? Do you really think a few mm spacing will make a difference?
Bruce
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lonewolfe
post Dec 19 2014, 10:47 PM
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QUOTE(bdstone914 @ Dec 19 2014, 06:24 AM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Dec 17 2014, 06:44 PM) *

Just curious.
I have used just the head-->>manifold phenolic spacer and I have never had any heat issues on the manifolds or carbs.
Sure, there is some heat from the studs, but never enough to make a big difference.

Also, with these added gaskets, you are moving the throttle plate further away from the valve which does have a negative result.

So, why add these?

Rich


Rich
What is the negative result and how is it any different than adding tall manifolds that are better for top end? Do you really think a few mm spacing will make a difference?
Bruce


I believe the benefit is the phenolic spacers stop the heat from traveling up the manifold.
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Gary
post Dec 20 2014, 08:18 AM
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Mark,

I'm up for a set of 4 w/ gaskets.

If the timing works to save on shipping, you can add to the upholstery order.

Thnx!
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Woody
post Dec 20 2014, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Dec 19 2014, 10:47 PM) *

QUOTE(bdstone914 @ Dec 19 2014, 06:24 AM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Dec 17 2014, 06:44 PM) *

Just curious.
I have used just the head-->>manifold phenolic spacer and I have never had any heat issues on the manifolds or carbs.
Sure, there is some heat from the studs, but never enough to make a big difference.

Also, with these added gaskets, you are moving the throttle plate further away from the valve which does have a negative result.

So, why add these?

Rich


Rich
What is the negative result and how is it any different than adding tall manifolds that are better for top end? Do you really think a few mm spacing will make a difference?
Bruce


I believe the benefit is the phenolic spacers stop the heat from traveling up the manifold.



Yes its an insulator. In the summer down here in Texas fuel percolation is very common on my AX car. Any little bit helps.
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r_towle
post Dec 20 2014, 08:18 PM
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QUOTE(bdstone914 @ Dec 19 2014, 09:24 AM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Dec 17 2014, 06:44 PM) *

Just curious.
I have used just the head-->>manifold phenolic spacer and I have never had any heat issues on the manifolds or carbs.
Sure, there is some heat from the studs, but never enough to make a big difference.

Also, with these added gaskets, you are moving the throttle plate further away from the valve which does have a negative result.

So, why add these?

Rich


Rich
What is the negative result and how is it any different than adding tall manifolds that are better for top end? Do you really think a few mm spacing will make a difference?
Bruce


You want the throttle plate as close to the valve as you can get it.
Tall manifolds do not do that.
Adding a spacer moves it away.

I do not have data at my fingertips, but it's fairly common knowledge when tuning a car on a dyno.
I believe Chris makes, or did make short manifolds from the commonly available tall ones.

There is also a difference with tall velocity stacks.

In my experience, the farther the throttle plate is away from the valve, the higher up in the RPM range your power band will be.
For autocross, torque is king, so short everything, manifolds and ventures.
I swapped tall and short manifolds on the same car.
Short ones have a quicker throttle response, lower power band, more torque sooner...all for autocross.

as Jake says, it's all in the combo, so if you like high end revving, you can build your transmission to match your intake flow dynamics and tall parts might work for you in yr specific application, and temperature.

Rich
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Ansbacher
post Dec 20 2014, 09:46 PM
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I've used similar spacers with Weber IDFs when I had my 356 SC. Never seemed to make a difference. The carbs always boiled off when fully up to temp after sitting for a while. That was here in the Florida summers, maybe that was the difference.

Ansbacher
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