 Advantages of H-Beam rods over stock in a 2.0L |
|
|
|
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG.
This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way. Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners. |
|
|
  |
| Woody |
 Feb 27 2015, 04:14 PM
Post
#21
|
|
Sandbox Rabblerouser and head toilet scrubber  Group: Members Posts: 3,858 Joined: 28-December 10 From: San Antonio Texas Member No.: 12,530 Region Association: Southwest Region  |
The rods are 5.325. Cam is an 86b/86c on 105 degree lobe centers with a reduced base circle. Pistons are 98mm JEs with raised pins and biral cylinders.
|
   |
 
|
| lonewolfe |
Feb 27 2015, 04:33 PM
Post
#22
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 819 Joined: 12-September 11 From: Oakland, CA Member No.: 13,549 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Woody @ Feb 27 2015, 02:14 PM)  The rods are 5.325. Cam is an 86b/86c on 105 degree lobe centers with a reduced base circle. Pistons are 98mm JEs with raised pins and biral cylinders. I've seen those Biral cylinders on a couple of sites. Do you have any experience with them? I've not seen anyone that has used them on a 914. In theory that sound like a great option to me but some folks have said they don't stay round because the iron sleeves are too thin. Not that they've actually used them. I believe they came from the factory on some 356's and early 911's. I doubt Porsche would have used them if they were problematic and probably switched to iron to cut cost. |
|
|
|
| Mark Henry |
Feb 27 2015, 04:39 PM
Post
#23
|
|
that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Feb 27 2015, 05:33 PM) QUOTE(Woody @ Feb 27 2015, 02:14 PM) The rods are 5.325. Cam is an 86b/86c on 105 degree lobe centers with a reduced base circle. Pistons are 98mm JEs with raised pins and biral cylinders. I've seen those Biral cylinders on a couple of sites. Do you have any experience with them? I've not seen anyone that has used them on a 914. In theory that sound like a great option to me buy some folks have said they don't stay round because the iron sleeves are too thin. Not that they've actually used them. I believe they came from the factory on some 356's and early 911's. I doubt Porsche would have used them if they were problematic and probably switched to iron to cut cost. They switched to nikasil and alusil, in the 911 the birail cylinder was a transition part as the HP increased. I think staying round isn't the issue as much as separation of the two materials. |
|
|
|
| Woody |
Feb 27 2015, 04:44 PM
Post
#24
|
|
Sandbox Rabblerouser and head toilet scrubber Group: Members Posts: 3,858 Joined: 28-December 10 From: San Antonio Texas Member No.: 12,530 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I have never used them before and haven't heard of anyone else using them either. That being said this is a race motor that will be getting yearly tear downs.
|
|
|
|
| lonewolfe |
Feb 27 2015, 05:13 PM
Post
#25
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 819 Joined: 12-September 11 From: Oakland, CA Member No.: 13,549 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Woody @ Feb 27 2015, 02:44 PM) I have never used them before and haven't heard of anyone else using them either. That being said this is a race motor that will be getting yearly tear downs. Good luck with the motor and your race season! Please keep us informed of your experience with those Biral Cylinders. I'm sure there are other people curious about those Birals! When will you have it up and running? What type racing will you be doing? |
|
|
|
| Woody |
Feb 27 2015, 06:31 PM
Post
#26
|
|
Sandbox Rabblerouser and head toilet scrubber Group: Members Posts: 3,858 Joined: 28-December 10 From: San Antonio Texas Member No.: 12,530 Region Association: Southwest Region |
It's an autocross car but will see some track days. Hopefully it will be in and running by the end of March.
|
|
|
|
| ChrisFoley |
Feb 27 2015, 06:58 PM
Post
#27
|
|
I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,910 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None 
|
QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Feb 27 2015, 03:14 PM) ... I believe that's the cam RacerChris uses in his racer which leads me to think it's best at high RPM's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Actually, I removed that cam from my "B" engine last time I had it apart, and installed something slightly more aggressive. I used the 86a for several seasons with great success. Its very street friendly when coupled with stock heads & low compression. However, the cam likes compression. I pulled about 140 hp from a 1.8L by porting the heads and bumping the compression up to 10:1. Those changes moved the power band up to 4000-6500 rpm - which required installation of better rods. |
|
|
|
| Mueller |
Feb 27 2015, 07:57 PM
Post
#28
|
|
914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
|
QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Feb 27 2015, 04:58 PM) QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Feb 27 2015, 03:14 PM) ... I believe that's the cam RacerChris uses in his racer which leads me to think it's best at high RPM's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Actually, I removed that cam from my "B" engine last time I had it apart, and installed something slightly more aggressive. I used the 86a for several seasons with great success. Its very street friendly when coupled with stock heads & low compression. However, the cam likes compression. I pulled about 140 hp from a 1.8L by porting the heads and bumping the compression up to 10:1. Those changes moved the power band up to 4000-6500 rpm - which required installation of better rods. Better rods for the 1.8 are available? What about the 1.7's? I can only seem to find them for the 2.0 motors. |
|
|
|
| lonewolfe |
Feb 28 2015, 02:32 AM
Post
#29
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 819 Joined: 12-September 11 From: Oakland, CA Member No.: 13,549 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Feb 27 2015, 12:38 PM) QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Feb 26 2015, 11:42 PM) QUOTE(Mueller @ Feb 26 2015, 08:32 PM) QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Feb 26 2015, 06:48 PM) Nothing? I think this thread is dead in its' tracks! Sadly the discussion of modified Type IV's is going to be less and less it seems as those that are in the know move on to something else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Thanks for the reply Mueller! Sometimes it's like trying to find hens teeth to get information. Unless one is upgrading to a motor from a 911, Subie or some V8. ... Yep agree, I've been building engines for over 25 years, I used to give lots advice, I got tired of being told I don't know shit from armchair engineers that read something on the internet. I don't give much advice anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) I totally understand Mark! There are a few opinionated people on here! That's true in any forum. Most are very cool and helpful! |
|
|
|
| lonewolfe |
Feb 28 2015, 03:42 AM
Post
#30
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 819 Joined: 12-September 11 From: Oakland, CA Member No.: 13,549 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Woody @ Feb 27 2015, 01:40 PM) QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Feb 27 2015, 02:14 PM) QUOTE(76racer @ Feb 27 2015, 10:08 AM) Have you priced H beam rods recently? by the time you resize and rebush your own rods you're not that far off. I installed them on my 2056 and have been very happy. I am also using 96 KB pistons and a Webcam 86A. I'm pretty happy with the performance and will be adding a header system this spring. Also running Dell 40's Joe Hi Joe! Thanks for your input! I've considered a Webcam 86A. When does the power start coming on with that cam? Is it good for street driving? Does your car idle smoothly? I thought the 86a was better suited in the higher RPM range but I may be wrong about that. I believe that's the cam RacerChris uses in his racer which leads me to think it's best at high RPM's. I've had an 86a in my 2056 for years. It's street friendly and begins to make power in the 3-3500 range. I've been satisfied with it. I'm going more aggressive with my current build. 80mm crank and rods. Hey Woody! Looks like you're off to a good start with your motor. How much is that flywheel lightened? Also what do you have mounted on the top end of your crankshaft? |
|
|
|
| Woody |
Feb 28 2015, 07:49 AM
Post
#31
|
|
Sandbox Rabblerouser and head toilet scrubber Group: Members Posts: 3,858 Joined: 28-December 10 From: San Antonio Texas Member No.: 12,530 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I'm going with an upright fan conversion from Fat Performance so that is the belt pulley. The clutch and flywheel weight 14 pounds together, I think the flywheel is around 8 or 9 pounds. It's from Patrick Motorsports. I'm not convinced that the Fat kit was the best money spent when there are other options out there that would probably work better. I bought it years ago and decided to give it a try. Chris at Tangerine has a flat fan setup that I wouldn't mind giving a try, maybe next year when I recover from how much I've already got in this build. Jake also has his DTM setup that directs the airflow to each cylinder and head that may be the best option out there but I'm not a big fan of the aesthetics of it. My goal for this engine is a very light rotating assembly as there is a bunch of accelerating and decelerating in autocross. This will change the whole nature of the car. Here's a pic of the clutch and flywheel setup.
  |
|
|
|
| Mark Henry |
Feb 28 2015, 09:10 AM
Post
#32
|
|
that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
The FAT kit is no worse than any other 911 fan kit, I just hate them because in a T4 into VW bug conversion they fit like shit. They sit too high.
|
|
|
|
| Mueller |
Feb 28 2015, 09:21 AM
Post
#33
|
|
914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
|
I'm waiting for the 911/908 based horizontal fan for the Type IV...
I wonder how much HP that gear box for the fan sucks up! I doubt it is noticed much on the motor below...claimed 900hp + !   |
|
|
|
| Dave_Darling |
Feb 28 2015, 11:35 AM
Post
#34
|
|
914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
|
QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Feb 28 2015, 12:32 AM) I totally understand Mark! There are a few opinionated people on here! That's true in any forum. Most are very cool and helpful! The worst ones are the guys who know enough to be dangerous. They have done a few things a bunch of times, and many things a few times, and know the theory, so they can sound really authoritative. But then you find out that their car hasn't run right in years... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Uh wait, where was I going with that?? BTW, I recall reading that the gear-driven flat-fan setup in the 935 sucked up something on the order of 30 HP at redline. Not a big deal if it helped your 700 HP motor live through a 24 hour race, but kind of a big deal to those of us with 100-200 HP motors. --DD |
|
|
|
| Mark Henry |
Feb 28 2015, 01:21 PM
Post
#35
|
|
that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(Mueller @ Feb 28 2015, 10:21 AM) I'm waiting for the 911/908 based horizontal fan for the Type IV... I wonder how much HP that gear box for the fan sucks up! I doubt it is noticed much on the motor below...claimed 900hp + ! Not the same as the Porsche solution, but Chris (Tangerine) has a horizontal fan set up for the T4. |
|
|
|
| ChrisFoley |
Feb 28 2015, 05:58 PM
Post
#36
|
|
I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,910 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
|
QUOTE(Mueller @ Feb 27 2015, 08:57 PM) ... Better rods for the 1.8 are available? What about the 1.7's? I can only seem to find them for the 2.0 motors. Mine are Carillo. |
|
|
|
| ChrisFoley |
Feb 28 2015, 06:15 PM
Post
#37
|
|
I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,910 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
|
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Feb 28 2015, 02:21 PM) ... Not the same as the Porsche solution, but Chris (Tangerine) has a horizontal fan set up for the T4. Lowest hp draw Type 4 fan cooling system. Retains the stock alternator, driven at a lower rpm than stock.  |
|
|
|
| Jake Raby |
Mar 1 2015, 02:14 PM
Post
#38
|
|
Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Mueller @ Feb 26 2015, 08:32 PM) QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Feb 26 2015, 06:48 PM) Nothing? I think this thread is dead in its' tracks! Sadly the discussion of modified Type IV's is going to be less and less it seems as those that are in the know move on to something else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) That couldn't be further from the reality of things.. Its possible to know more than one thing passionately. Hell, some parts from watercooled Porsches are being adapted to the T4, including variable valve timing components :-) |
|
|
|
| lonewolfe |
Mar 1 2015, 03:38 PM
Post
#39
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 819 Joined: 12-September 11 From: Oakland, CA Member No.: 13,549 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Feb 28 2015, 04:15 PM) QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Feb 28 2015, 02:21 PM) ... Not the same as the Porsche solution, but Chris (Tangerine) has a horizontal fan set up for the T4. Lowest hp draw Type 4 fan cooling system. Retains the stock alternator, driven at a lower rpm than stock. I love the look of this system. It's pretty badass like most everything Chris makes! |
|
|
|
| Jake Raby |
Mar 1 2015, 04:13 PM
Post
#40
|
|
Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Woody,
I love 5.325" rods with an 80 crank, it'll snatch your head off. I've been using them since around 1995 :-) |
|
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 26th April 2024 - 03:21 PM |
Invision Power Board
v9.1.4 © 2024 IPS, Inc.