914-6/904 project begins Options

[Unobtanium-inc]

What a shame that that the only thing left of a historic race car is a POS. I tried (along with others I am sure) to make Adam "more than whole" in an attempt to save this race car (and restore it to its former glory) from the demolition we now see unfolding before our eyes. He was more interested in doubling his purchase price (yada, yada, yada)...it was both his RIGHT and his decision to move forward. It was also a horrible decision on his part to actually follow-through with the "transformation to nothing" as we can all clearly now see (and already knew). Nothing has been gained by doing this but everything has been lost...

The results I see here are utterly abysmal. So sad. No holding back my tongue here...

Tony

PS: The "hacksaw" and "Sawsall" pictures Adam posted couldn't be more accurate - a true clusterfuck of monumental proportions!

Adam - So after all that crap and alternative solutions being sought, you've ended up cutting the IMSA car to bits? Really? Wow.

Tony

Tony, I guess I'll just keep repeating myself,

Tony-
I have to say I'm impressed, in a world where people never live up to their nick-names, but you do!
Ok, so I'll bite.
When a few people expressed outrage at my plan for the car I offered anyone who was interested two choices.
1. Trade me their six conversion.
2. Buy mine for enough for me to replace it.

No one offered to trade me a running and driving car. No one offered to buy my car for enough to replace it. And the last chance was one person expressed interest in it and asked for a few alternatives on how to buy it. I gave him 3 which I felt were very reasonable. This was a solution worked out behind the scenes on this board. I presented the choices and never heard anything back. Months went by before I actually started cutting on the car.
So, Tony, what would you have done? Lost thousands of dollars? Given the car away? No one with a comparable car wanted to trade, or take a hit on their car. Before I bought this one I tried to buy several from people on this board and all the cars I was offered were not finished projects that were all double what I paid for this car. So if no one in the 914 World wants to take a hit, why should I?

Now can we get back to my build now, I don't think there is really anything else to be said, the car has been chopped and on it's way into becoming the 904. I have reached the point of no return, so moving forward, if you don't agree with this project, don't click on it, it's really that simple.

As far as a selfie, took this one yesterday.

[Cracker]

Your explanation is not entirely true...you claimed to have paid 15k for the race car. The value you saw in the car was basically an engine - the chassis (at least what you are doing to one) modification (ie. destruction) could have been had for nearly nothing. The investment in getting that race car restored as new would have been immense. Bottom line: I do not embrace your vision for this car; therefore, I wouldn't want ANY 914 chassis to undergo such experimental transformation. A running six, trans and rolling chassis could have easily been sourced for the amount that I offered you. Its not that I don't hear you Adam...its that what I hear is F.O.S.!

I am certainly not the most gifted builder out there - probably ranked somewhere in the "thousands" if there even were such a list. However, I do know what is achievable when modifying a 914 - and maintaining the integrity of a teener. Contrary to to all the crap that finds me within this community - lifting a 914 up and representing the model to the best of my abilities to enthusiasts across the hobby-world is important to me. People here are being way to nice...your decision to destroy this car for your weird reasons are simply ridiculous (along with those pictures of yourself)!

Tony

[Unobtanium-inc]

Your explanation is not entirely true...you claimed to have paid 15k for the race car. The value you saw in the car was basically an engine - the chassis (at least what you are doing to one) modification (ie. destruction) could have been had for nearly nothing. The investment in getting that race car restored as new would have been immense. Bottom line: I do not embrace your vision for this car; therefore, I wouldn't want ANY 914 chassis to undergo such experimental transformation. A running six, trans and rolling chassis could have easily been sourced for the amount that I offered you. Its not that I don't hear you Adam...its that what I hear is F.O.S.!

I am certainly not the most gifted builder out there - probably ranked somewhere in the "thousands" if there even were such a list. However, I do know what is achievable when modifying a 914 - and maintaining the integrity of a teener. Contrary to to all the crap that finds me within this community - lifting a 914 up and representing the model to the best of my abilities to enthusiasts across the hobby-world is important to me. People here are being way to nice...your decision to destroy this car for your weird reasons are simply ridiculous (along with those pictures of yourself)!

Tony

That's now the 2nd falsehood you have spouted and I think I need it to clear up some "facts".
You said, "He was more interested in doubling his purchase price (yada, yada, yada)" and " A running six, trans and rolling chassis could have easily been sourced for the amount that I offered you. Its not that I don't hear you Adam...its that what I hear is F.O.S.!"
That is disingenuous. There was no profit motive in my decision making, I'm sure I will lost many thousands on this project. All I ever wanted was a running and driving 914/6. No one on this board wanted to sell me one for any less than $30,000-35,000. I finally found this one on ebay, where it had been languishing for years, as well as being on the market on and off since 2007. It was $15,000 so I bought it. Once people wanted to save the car as it was I said I would gladly trade for a running and driving six. Your final offer was $21,000, which would have left me at least $10,000 short in finding another comparable car. You guys could have banded together and bought out one of your cars and traded it, or used your 914 connections to find a running six and traded it. Nope, everyone just wants to throw rocks at me, but doesn't actually want to do anything. Why should I lose $10,000 to make you happy? People came out of the woodwork and acted like I swiped this from under everyone's noses and then decided to "destroy" it in my evil plot. I get accused of "swiping" cars a lot, I moved over a million dollars last year in "found" Porsches but this car was not such a case, I bought it on ebay, the world's marketplace and then didn't cut on the car for over a year to leave all the concerned parties a chance to "save" the car if you wanted to. Well, the year came and went and I finally decided to move on with my project.
So I'm not F.O.S which I'm assuming is shiznit, right? I looked for over two years for a car that was affordable, there was nothing, and I'm good at finding Porsches, better than most. Maybe, Tony, you should have upped your offer to $30,000 and you could have taken the $10,000 hit if it's so easy to do!

[johnhora]

Adam....you evil scientist you...ha ha...just love threads like this.....all this beating up the man for doing what he want to do with his own toys and $$$....keep working at making this thing work....as you/we all know when starting down this path there's a lot more work in making a conversion project complete....keep at it and post the pics....John

[Cracker]

Adam: Just for the record...I don't believe you are a bad guy - a bit goofy maybe. Your decision making, however, verifiably leaves allot (like everything) to be desired! Your actions have invalidated any argument you try to present to this group = full of s _ _ t! A sound replacement package could have been sourced for the amount I offered you - period. You say no; I say yes. I did not WANT a third race car in my stable - I needed that like I needed a hole in my head. I was simply trying to preserve, with some reason, a fairly special 914. My only motivation was to save the damn car...it appears your motivation was to destroy one. Congratulation - mission accomplished.

I'm done with this and with you...

Tony

[Unobtanium-inc]

Adam....you evil scientist you...ha ha...just love threads like this.....all this beating up the man for doing what he want to do with his own toys and $$$....keep working at making this thing work....as you/we all know when starting down this path there's a lot more work in making a conversion project complete....keep at it and post the pics....John

Thanks John!

[Unobtanium-inc]

Adam: Just for the record...I don't believe you are a bad guy - a bit goofy maybe. Your decision making, however, verifiably leaves allot (like everything) to be desired! Your actions have invalidated any argument you try to present to this group = full of s _ _ t! A sound replacement package could have been sourced for the amount I offered you - period. You say no; I say yes. I did not WANT a third race car in my stable - I needed that like I needed a hole in my head. I was simply trying to preserve, with some reason, a fairly special 914. My only motivation was to save the damn car...it appears your motivation was to destroy one. Congratulation - mission accomplished.

I'm done with this and with you...

Tony

If it was so easy, why didn't you get it together and trade it for my car? I didn't touch cut on the car for a year!
You didn't want to save this car beyond throwing me an unacceptable offer, and then trashing me as full of shiznit and weird. I can honestly say that I looked everywhere to find another car that was comparable to this one, and in this market it just isn't there. I looked on this board, ebay, samba, Pelican, craigslist, my black book of contacts, I then went to known builders and re-seller's of 914's like Brad Mayeur and John Forbes and asked them and nothing. You make it sound so easy to source a running and driving six conversion, well maybe you should have shown me how easy it was!

[bandjoey]

Tony. Get a life. If you need the thrill just. Read page one over and over and over and stay off the current page. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Get a life and let's get on with the build.

[rgalla9146]

.....there's a thread on the 'VW Vortex' called "doing it wrong".....
it's hilarious

[mgp4591]

This is probably up further on your post but I'll ask anyway... Why did you need a real 6 if you were going to modify it anyway? If it's yours, I think you can do what you want with it but I'm missing the point of why it had to be an original six... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Chris914n6]

What a shame that that the only thing left of a historic race car is a POS. I tried (along with others I am sure) to make Adam "more than whole" in an attempt to save this race car (and restore it to its former glory) from the demolition we now see unfolding before our eyes. He was more interested in doubling his purchase price (yada, yada, yada)...it was both his RIGHT and his decision to move forward. It was also a horrible decision on his part to actually follow-through with the "transformation to nothing" as we can all clearly now see (and already knew). Nothing has been gained by doing this but everything has been lost...

The results I see here are utterly abysmal. So sad. No holding back my tongue here...

Tony

PS: The "hacksaw" and "Sawsall" pictures Adam posted couldn't be more accurate - a true clusterfuck of monumental proportions!

You're not the only one that thinks this was the wrong chassis to work with, but this is how it turned out and I've made peace with it, because I put in a lot of effort talking to publicly interested parties into trying to build a -6 with his drivetrain, and no one committed, so it didn't happen.
What is done is done, let the man have his build thread.

[Unobtanium-inc]

This is probably up further on your post but I'll ask anyway... Why did you need a real 6 if you were going to modify it anyway? If it's yours, I think you can do what you want with it but I'm missing the point of why it had to be an original six... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

The car is not an original six, the VIN starts with a 4. Also of note and an ironic one is that while some seem to put great reverence in the IMSA history and provenance, the builder of the car had none. When I talked to Bob he had no love for the car, basically said it was a loser that they ran for one year and cut it loose.

[bretth]

I'm done with this and with you...

Tony

Finally, enough whining, crying and getting offended over what someone does with their own car. It is a car not a religious artifact. There is so many real problems in this world that don't get even a fraction of the attention that the naysayers are wasting energy on here. Could someone clean out the crap posts that have nothing valuable to add to this thread?

[carr914]

Most of us here are probably holding our tongues on what we think about what you did to this historic IMSA car. I started out thinking that you could basically do whatever you wanted with your own car(s). After seeing the destruction, I've completely changed my mind.

I think this looks like a full on abortion. You could have cut apart ANY old 914 to make this mess, for that matter.

What you did to this historic car is a disgrace. The Porsche Gods will not bless this tragedy.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

If U-O had Any talent, I might give him some slack, but he FUBAR'd a car he could have made money on. What a Muldoon!

[rgalla9146]

Most of us here are probably holding our tongues on what we think about what you did to this historic IMSA car. I started out thinking that you could basically do whatever you wanted with your own car(s). After seeing the destruction, I've completely changed my mind.

I think this looks like a full on abortion. You could have cut apart ANY old 914 to make this mess, for that matter.

What you did to this historic car is a disgrace. The Porsche Gods will not bless this tragedy.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

If U-O had Any talent, I might give him some slack, but he FUBAR'd a car he could have made money on. What a Muldoon!

Hey TC
For a 'builder' who's a merchant first, it's a mistake.
Aside from that, any 914 chassis under that body is a poor choice, have you noticed the rear track ?
Vintage racing and restoration of cars with history has never been more popular.
What a waste.
When beautiful things are done praise is given freely.
When you step onto the stage you might be greeted with rotten tomatoes.
IMHO
Rory

[sixnotfour]

Cant be unseen,, Cant be undone,,
all we can do is pray, 914904 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[Unobtanium-inc]

Ok, on some level I have to agree, race cars with winning provenance do command a premium in today's market. That's why when I pulled this A coupe out of the mud and the owner came over and casually mentioned, "I won Daytona in that car." I took notice and will restore this car, I've also done some good research on it and even found original 8mm footage of the car running at Courtland. That car won a known race with a known driver, Jim Watson, yes that's him in his Spyder getting a trophy from Sterling Moss, that's racing provenance!
But while this 914 ran in IMSA I can only find one race by Dave Bottom where he came in 12th. According to Bob Garretson it wasn't a winner, from there it got traded around and last ran in SCCA in the Ozark region where it did well at first but got progressively more obsolete in the GT3 class. Had it been the first 914-6 that Bob built that Maas won the IMSA championship with then I think you could find someone who would restore it and pay good money for it. This car is not that car.
Had this car had any value as a race car it would not have taken almost a decade to sell it. It's also been seen on this site for 2 years now, almost 50,000 clicks on the car, as well as a thread on the 356 Registry website and another thread on the Early 911S Registry website, so if there was someone who wanted to save this car because of it valuable historical provenance, that person would have stepped up by now. People covet the winners in life and that goes for cars too. This car has an interesting history but not a very valuable one. Automotive Archeoloigists was trying to sell this car around 2007 and had all the history out there for everyone to see, no takers. The guy I bought it from had bought it from them around 2011 to use as a DE car, but all it ever did was sit in his backyard, he never drove it. It took him almost a year to sell it, to me. It was at the end of the line, next stop was harvesting the pieces. I saved it from that and the chassis will live on, and trust me once I'm finished the car will be worth way more than just about any 4 cylinder 914. Everyone laughed when I was building Da Spoodster, said it was a waste of time, I didn't know what I was doing, etc, and guess what, before I could even finish it a guy came forward and had to have it and paid $50,000 for it not running, not even finished. So while there seems to be a long line of arm chair quarterbacks telling me what a fool I am, they should probably go start a support group with all the guys who told me my last build was a fool's errand and they can all take an adventure to Australia and check out my last build in a private collection, oh, and that same collector is already asking about buying this car, which I don't plan on selling once it's finished, but he keeps asking. He even came to my shop to look at it and was impressed with the vision.
In the end I'm going to go with my gut that this will be a cool car, this is the same gut that has sold millions $$$ in vintage Porsches, I tend to know when something has value and when it's just an interesting footnote. Now the Daytona A, that will have value when finished as a historical race car. Let me know how the support group shapes up.

[Steve]

Yep it's ugly as sin under the skirt. Even after it's finished, I would never let anyone see what's underneath. Curious if Beck would of sold just the chassis. That would of been a nobrainer versus this abomination.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Yep it's ugly as sin under the skirt. Even after it's finished, I would never let anyone see what's underneath. Curious if Beck would of sold just the chassis. That would of been a nobrainer versus this abomination.

Beck will only sell you the complete roller, no body's and no chassis, and then it's just a kit car, not a Porsche. Also, they want $50,000-60,000 for the roller. I've talked to Chuck Beck about this project, he initially thought about using a 914 but the challenges of things like the shock towers made him decide to make his own chassis. But I am consulting with the Hines family who builds the 904 and has taken over most of the Beck operation.

[GaroldShaffer]

It doesn't matter what you say there those of us on here that feel you screwed up and shouldn't whacked this car. I hope you prove us wrong, but I have my doubts.

Build your car, but you will need some thick skin to get past us nay sayers. You post on a open forum, on a 914 enthusiasts website, don't expect everyone to be happy. You could have taken ALL the go fast good stuff off and used it on another chassis to cut up. Slap some 4 lug stuff on the racecar chassis and move it along. All that time and money spent on "tunning" the engine and chassis to only whack it down to this was a waste.

If you are building this for you, great. If you are building with thoughts of selling down the road for a profit then, well good luck.