Thunky suspension, Shock or torsion bar? Options

[john77]

My front right side suspension has slowly been getting creakier and creakier over the past few months. If I pushed up and down on the fender it had started to squeak like crazy. Then I took it out on Thursday to check it over before AX and the creak had been promoted to a thunk. Driving at 10mph and swerving right to left it thunks as I turn to the left, as if the shock is bottoming out.

My knowledge of suspension components is minimal, but before I take it to the shop I was wondering if there was a simple way for me to diagnose what's causing it. I'd love to start working on my 914 myself - a friend has just offered me the use of his workshop so I finally have the room and tools. I also figure, while I'm in there, this may be a chance to improve my set up for AX. Or is this stuff best left to a professional?

This is the offending side. My shocks are Bilsteins, if I'm not mistaken.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i2.photobucket.com-17027-1430175103.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i2.photobucket.com-17027-1430175103.2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i2.photobucket.com-17027-1430175103.3.jpeg)

Any advice much appreciated.

John

[McMark]

Check the location of the sway bar arms. I see a lot of them that have migrated off the square portion of the bar and are therefore somewhat loose. Squeaking is usually from the sway bar, and can be cured with cleaning and lubrication. But it sounds like your bar has 'eaten' it's bushings. See the picture below and find the black tubing, that's the bushing. If that's gone the bar will clunk. It'll be obvious because you can grab the sway bar and move it up and down 1/2".

If that's not it, then it could be the strut retaining nut. It's under the cover tube, so it's not easy to get to. But that can be a clunk.

Finally, it could be the rubber bushings on the A-arm. visually inspect them. They tend to crumble and disappear when they finally let go. So if there's rubber, and there's not chunks missing, it's usually fine.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/forums.pelicanparts.com-419-1430176413.1.jpg)

[mgp4591]

An awful lot of variables there...
I'd start with the jack under the lower control arm to almost the outside, then take a pry bar and lift on the strut to see if the ball joint has movement. Then grab the rotor/caliper assy and move it back and forth to check for outer and inner tie rod end play. While you're prying on the strut make sure to look for looseness at the top of the strut bolting into the body too. Any and all of those could be suspect...
Also check for loose bolts holding the steering rack in place. Listen carefully when you're moving things to locate where they may be coming from and zero in on that.
Other than that, it's tough to diagnose stuff like that without being there- I used to ask customers to hold the phone closer to the car so I could hear (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
Oh yeah, I agree with Mark too. Like I said, an awful lot of variable going on here...
Good luck!

[wndsnd]

I had a clunk after I restored the car. The threaded nut holding the shock in the strut, located under that shock cover, was loose.

It is a little work to get to it, but it can be done and when you retighten use some blue threadlock for good measure.

Oops I see Mark already mentioned it.

[john77]

Thanks guys. I'm going to take a look at it tonight when I get back from work, so I'll report back on what I find.

[Mike Bellis]

I had a clunk and found the sway bar pivot mount on the inner fender had torn out. I welded in a strengthening plate to keep it firmly mounted.

[john77]

Right, spent a couple of hours trying to figure this out. I'm finding it really difficult to localize where the noise is coming from.

There's no movement in the strut at all if I try to move it side to side.

The A arm bushings look fine. The noise definitely isn't coming from the front one, but it's hard to tell with the back as it's so near the swap bar mount and the tie rod.

There's no movement in the sway arm where it mounts to the square portion and though a can see a little damage to the bushing there's no slop in it whatsoever. Is it supposed to protrude this far out of the socket?

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i2.photobucket.com-17027-1430192034.1.jpg)


There is movement in the arm that links the sway bar to the lower control arm (?). Is that normal? The bushing in the top part seems a little shot, but I don't think that's the source of the noise.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i2.photobucket.com-17027-1430192034.2.jpg)

Not sure how to embed video but here's a link of the play in it:

https://youtu.be/1OFs3TxDm_U

[john77]

Here's a video of the noise if I push up and down on the fender. I appreciate how useless that may be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

https://youtu.be/tNwSrGAgwsA

[brant]

Check the shock retaining nut


Edit. Just saw the video. Shock I'm guessing. Does it clunk also on corners ?

[mgp4591]

Open the hood, improve the light and have someone else push while you record... other than that, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Bob L.]

Seems like the end link bushings are shot. I'm pretty sure pelican parts or 914rubber has them.

[McMark]

While you have one side up, install the wheel and grab it firmly and sharply lift it - as if the car is going over a bump.

Also make sure to check the other side, sounds can travel weirdly.

[john77]

Check the shock retaining nut


Edit. Just saw the video. Shock I'm guessing. Does it clunk also on corners ?

Yeah, that's when it really clunks, when I'm cornering to the left. So to get to the strut retaining nut I'm going to have to remove the strut? P32 of my copy of Tech Tips 700 is telling me I can change out the strut insert without even removing the wheel - could I follow these instructions to get to the nut too?

[john77]

While you have one side up, install the wheel and grab it firmly and sharply lift it - as if the car is going over a bump.

Also make sure to check the other side, sounds can travel weirdly.

Thanks McMark, I'm going to have to try this tomorrow. Pushing the driver side fender up and down, there's no noise - I just checked to make sure.

Not sure if this helps, but I jacked up the A-arm and then released the jack. The noise you hear at 7 seconds is the noise it's making.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fs5g493WZA

[Paragon]

You need qty 4 of item "K" shown here:

http://www.paragon-products.com/Weltmeiste...b-1000-1100.htm

You may want to pick up 2 of "Q" as well because the diameter of this tube and therefore the hole in "K" changed over the years.

I'll agree with some of the other guys that I'd suspect a loose gland nut holding your shock insert in the strut tube. Put the front of the car on jack stands, remove the wheels and you can remove the top nut holding the strut shaft in the upper strut bearing. You should be able to carefully pull the green dust cover down and pivot it out past the fender lip so you can remove the dust cover and check the nut. You may need to disconnect the sway bar drop links to get the suspension to "droop" enough to do this but you need to do that to replace the drop link bushings anyway.

[Paragon]

I just watched your Youtube video. Boy, that sounds like some sort of stiction coming from a bushing. Have the control arm bushings ever been replaced?

[john77]

You need qty 4 of item "K" shown here:

http://www.paragon-products.com/Weltmeiste...b-1000-1100.htm

You may want to pick up 2 of "Q" as well because the diameter of this tube and therefore the hole in "K" changed over the years.

I'll agree with some of the other guys that I'd suspect a loose gland nut holding your shock insert in the strut tube. Put the front of the car on jack stands, remove the wheels and you can remove the top nut holding the strut shaft in the upper strut bearing. You should be able to carefully pull the green dust cover down and pivot it out past the fender lip so you can remove the dust cover and check the nut. You may need to disconnect the sway bar drop links to get the suspension to "droop" enough to do this but you need to do that to replace the drop link bushings anyway.

Thanks!

I don't think the control arm bushings have been replaced. The car was built in 2007 and didn't really see that much use until I bought it 15 months ago.

[john77]

I finally got a chance to take another look at this. I detached the drop link on the sway bar and the bushings were completely shot. Then I pulled down on the main arm of the sway bar with the drop link detached and it is creaking like crazy. So that's either all or part of the problem.

I also pulled the strut to check the retaining nut. The shock covers were green but the struts are Boge from a 911 (part no: 911-080-341-02). The threaded nut is sticking out about 1cm. I have no reference for how far in it should be, is that right? I also have no idea what the best way to remove it is. Tech Tips says a pipe wrench or a blunt drift, but I'm guessing a pipe wrench will just strip the thread.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i2.photobucket.com-17027-1431477046.1.jpg)