They towed my baby home., starter, carbs, hydrolock? Options

[Lawrence]

Car had been acting wierd since the last fillup, especially when starting from a dead stop. Unfortunately, I put 89 grade ethanol in it, without reading the pump. (Best grade they had.) I figured that the problem might be minor vaporlock or just poor performance from the crap gas.

Well, on the way to work, the car was acting worse. Several times the car just stalled at an intersection, and I'd have to give it lots of gas to start. Starting was very hard.

At lunch, the car wouldn't start. I noticed the outside of the right carb was dripping. Checked hoses, and tried to start again. Engine started to turn - then stopped abruptly. Let it set, and it finally started.

I went to get gas and stop by BK for lunch. I filled it up to dilute the ethanol, which I still believed was most of the problem. In the drivethru, it stalled twice. I couldn't get it to start the second time, so I pushed my 914 through the BK drivethrough. How embarrassing.

Well, I get it out of the way, and try to start it again. Same "locked" problem. Give it a few minutes, and the starter clicks once. Hmmm. Battery dead? Try to start one more time, and now the starter whirrs freely, like the gear was broken off the end.

Here's my hypothesis/diagnosis:

Right side carb has a needle valve stuck open. Would cause poor running problems at low RPMs. When the key is set in the run position, it starts to fill 1 or more cylinders with fuel. Starting the car, I had a partial hydrolock. I didn't ever try to push-start the car down a hill or anything. The resistance from the engine damaged the starter.

Thoughts? Comments? Bets?

-Rusty

[need4speed]

clogged idle circuit?

Don't know how to explain the starter issue.
It's either some sort of cascade failure, like you described, or a coincidence, or maybe you just drained your battery past the point where the solenoid was functioning fully. . . (keep those fingers crossed).

[Lawrence]

I thought about the battery.. but I have a Vortex that's about a million CCA. While I'm checking it out, I'm going to clean connections, etc. That stuff can never hurt.

-Rusty
out to work on the car

[Aaron Cox]

ethanol? where'd ye buy that? what auto would use that?- a top fuel dragster? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Lawrence]

I pulled over for gas at a local station - most Midwest gas stations carry it. Anyways, there were two grades at the pump. 87 and 89.

I didn't notice the 89 was a ethanol (10%) blend.

-Rusty

[Mark Henry]

I pulled over for gas at a local station - most Midwest gas stations carry it. Anyways, there were two grades at the pump. 87 and 89.

I didn't notice the 89 was a ethanol (10%) blend.

-Rusty

The 10% blend shouldn't hurt anything, unless they're pumping the bottom of the tank and it was full of water. That doesn't mean it can't be the gas because I've got some skanky stuff before myself.
Our Sunoco 94 and Pioneer 93 octane are both 10% blends and I've never had a problem.

Did your distributor get knocked some how? Did you tighten it last time?

Also you could check you accelerator pump diaphragms, if they were the real old type the ethanol could have damaged them. Could be part of your leak.

Hydrolocked? Did it rain? I don't know about the /6 webers but the 4 have a choke enrichment circuit that if the get accidentally opened can wash down the cylinder with fuel.

Just some guesses. Good luck!

[Carl]

Lawrence,
I think you're stuck needle valve is quite likely. I had a similar problem in my /6 on a Roadglue drive. The engine didn't fill with fuel but the throat of the carb was VERY wet. The engine would run if the RPM was >3000. Below that the engine missed & smoked badly. Luckily, the needle valve unstuck itself after a few minutes driving on the freeway.

Your hydrolock/broken starter gear seems pretty logical to me.

Good Luck,
Carl

[Lawrence]

It's raining like cats and dogs in Kansas. I'm almost dry.

It only took 30 minutes to pull the starter. Thank God that I had the factory manuals. I'd have been really pissed to struggle for HOURS to find out that the upper bolt requires an 8mm allen head socket.

I forgot to disconnect the battery. Can you sing along with me? "You light up my liiiiiiiife.... AHHHHHHH!"

Starter gear looks a bit worn, but not too bad. Flywheel is pretty chewed up, as far as I could feel in the hole. I've never had the starter or transmission off, so some of this is news to me. Looks like I'll probably need a replacement. I'll take the starter in for testing in the morning.

It's too wet to go out and take a picture, so I'll do that in the morning, too.

Still no answer on the REAL problem... too wet to pull the air cleaners.

-Rusty

[krk]

Dude,

I'm bummed to hear it. I'm with Carl on this. I picked up a tank of questionable gas when I brought mine down from Vancouver, and it took a pretty thorough cleaning to get the crap out of them. (the carbs, that is) I was glad it ran fine at wot, or we would have had an interesting time -- ain't a whole lot of stuff up by Mt Shasta.... Anyway, good hunting!

kim.

[Qarl]

Bummer Lawrence. It's been raining for a while here in Florida too.

Hopefully you'll figure out your problem.

Keep us posted.

Regards,

[si2t3m]

Hi Lawrence,

I'd check the dizzy bolt first. Dizzy bolt might got a bit loose, and knocked the dizzy with alot of advance. So when you try to start it, it sparks too soon and the engine wants to go backwards. This could explain why the car ran like crap.

Might of picked up some crap in the gas, crap got to the needle valves (on or more) and it's dumping lots of fuel in the cylinders because one or more is opened How are you filtering the gas getting to the carbs?

Hopefully it's just #1.

It still doesn't explain the starter issue. I'm clueless on that one.

Marc-André

[Lawrence]

By the light of day...

Flywheel is toast. Several teeth are broken off.

Anyone got a /6 flywheel they dont need? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)


-Rusty


MA: Filter is before the fuel pump, changed a few weeks ago. I'll be changing the existing filter again this weekend, but I'm going to add one after the pump, too. Gotta get some good light to see the flywheel, and have the starter checked.

[MJHanna]

Pull your spark plugs to make sure one cylinders is not full of gas and that the engine turns over freely.

[krk]

Broken teeth? Ouch!!!

kim.

[Lawrence]

Pull your spark plugs to make sure one cylinders is not full of gas and that the engine turns over freely.

Yep. That was my thought, exactly. But more importantly - I need to diagnose why it happend... either a float or a needle valve, is my guess.

[si2t3m]

Sad new regarding the flywheel. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

This might be an option if you can't locate a good used flywheel: For my 3.0L conversion, i bought a /4 flywheel, sent it off to KEP. They cut out the center part of the flywheel, and replace it with on properly drilled to mate to the engine of choice.

I think that the /4, /6 or early 911's flywheel are identical in size except for the bolt patern to attach to the crank.

HTH

Marc-André

[Lawrence]

New 914/6 flywheels are available, ~275.00 at Paragon. Actually, I'm kind of encouraged, in a twisted kind of way.

Since all signs point to hydrolock due to excessive fuel - I'd rather have a chipped flywheel than a bent rod or holed piston.

-Rusty

[Lawrence]

Here are some pictures of the worn starter gear. I don't think it's too bad to *not* reuse.

[Lawrence]

pic 2

[Lawrence]

pic 3