Front mount oil cooler, rubber hoses? |
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Front mount oil cooler, rubber hoses? |
yarin |
Jun 5 2003, 10:40 PM
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#1
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'14-X'in FOOL Group: Members Posts: 988 Joined: 13-May 03 From: Guttenberg, NJ Member No.: 693 Region Association: North East States |
Any comments?
Every front mount application i've seen uses Aeroquip braided steel lines. Is rubber a bad idea? Thanks |
Qarl |
Jun 5 2003, 10:45 PM
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#2
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Shriveled member Group: Benefactors Posts: 5,233 Joined: 8-February 03 From: Florida Member No.: 271 Region Association: None |
You can use rubber, but the steel hose is probably stronger, and offers "some" wear protection with the stainless steel braiding.
You can also go with bent steel or brass lines, but they would be a bitch to form correctly. You can run your lines underneath the rockers, through the heater ducts on the passenger or driver side, but it would mess up your heat if you have it, or inside the cabin along the tunnel on the passenger side (not recommended in case the line bursts and shoots scalding hot oil on the driver!) I would put grommets in the through-holes to prevent chaffing of the body sheetmetal into the lines. |
cha914 |
Jun 5 2003, 11:04 PM
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#3
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MUSR 8 - 5lug conversion done wed - drive 500miles thrus Group: Members Posts: 739 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 63 |
this is the kind of rubber hose + fittings I have if I ever get around to mounting my front cooler:
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/aero5.htm - Tony |
campbellcj |
Jun 5 2003, 11:14 PM
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#4
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I can't Re Member Group: Members Posts: 4,542 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Agoura, CA Member No.: 21 Region Association: Southern California |
I used the spendy steel braided (aeroquip type) lines and AN fittings, run thru the heater ducts (I have no heat nor a need/desire for it.) Unless there are severe budget worries, I probably would not lean towards rubber lines or inferior connectors, especially push-on (barbed) stuff. That's an awfully long run and obviously a leak/puncture could be catastrophic.
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si2t3m |
Jun 6 2003, 06:53 AM
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#5
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914 addict Group: Members Posts: 346 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Qc, Canada Member No.: 119 |
I've calculated 27feet of hose to mount my cooler up front. I'll be going under the rocker panel as i need to keep the heat system.
How long of hoses did you guys need? TIA Marc-André |
MJHanna |
Jun 6 2003, 07:00 AM
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#6
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Does this 911 make my butt look big? Group: Members Posts: 805 Joined: 23-January 03 From: Lowry Crossing, Texas Member No.: 185 |
I have run the hose that Tony has posted for years in the car. If you read the specs on the hose, it is the same hose as the Steel braided without the “stainless cover”. Plus it is easier to work with. Once the ends are on, they do not pull out, you have to cut the hose to get them off. Just watch for wear points. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)
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bander |
Jun 6 2003, 07:03 AM
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#7
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 10-April 03 From: New Hampshire Member No.: 556 |
Mcmaster Carr all the way.
http://www.mcmaster.com/ search on part numbers 5279k213 and 5440k113. I used 1/2" but you could go with 3/4 if you wanted to. This hose is awesome stuff and the barb fittings have nuts like the AN so they can be disconnected easily. HOSE, 5279k213 1/2"id, $2.67/ft SAE-Rated Hydraulic Rubber Hose Assemblies and Hose • Tube: Buna-N rubber • Cover: black chlorinated synthetic rubber, Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA)-accepted • Reinforcement: SAE 100R1-AT, one high-tensile steel wire braid; SAE 100R2-AT, two high-tensile steel wire braids • Temperature Range: -40° to +257° F Male Coupling Hydraulic service requires hose that can handle the higher pressures. These hoses meet Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) standards and are suitable for use with petroleum-based hydraulic fluids. FITTINGS, 5440k113 $1.39 ea Brass Ball-Seat Hose Nipples Assembled Nipple A ball seating inside the nut of these nipples creates the seal, minimizing leaks that can occur with pipe thread connections. For easier installation, fitting consists of two pieces: a barbed hose stem and a separate NPSM (mechanical straight thread) female swivel nut. Just insert the barbed hose stem into the swivel nut, attach the hose to the stem, then swivel the nut onto the pipe connection. Swivel action during installation helps prevent hose from kinking. Maximum working pressure is 250 psi. |
yarin |
Jun 6 2003, 10:02 AM
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#8
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'14-X'in FOOL Group: Members Posts: 988 Joined: 13-May 03 From: Guttenberg, NJ Member No.: 693 Region Association: North East States |
Thanks for the info.
I'm looking to buy a car with a front mount oil cooler and rubber lines. Oils temps reach 225 on the highway and 190 in autox and street. These temps are safe, correct? |
john rogers |
Jun 6 2003, 12:11 PM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,525 Joined: 4-March 03 From: Chula Vista CA Member No.: 391 |
The only soft hose I would use is the "Parker" type kevlar lined hose that the off road guys use. The hose noted above is too close to the upper temperature limit for me to feel comfortable with it. I am like Chris, my race car uses braided lines with AN fittings. I have seen several vintage cars (not only Porsches) be rejected at tech with soft hoses. If you decide to buy the braided hose, a good method to use for the lengths is to buy a length of cheap garden hose and the fittings youll need and use the hose to hook it up for a prefit. Then have the Earl's guy do the cutting and fitting install as so far I have not seen any of their fittings leak. Good luck
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J P Stein |
Jun 6 2003, 12:20 PM
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#10
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
I agree with Mr. Rogers & Chris. This is no place to screw around. Buy the best stuff you can find.
SS hose is a PITH (hands) but doable by the average guy. I found that I had to attach many fittings "in place" as the fittings wouldn't go thru the same holes as the hoses.....it ups the PITH a bit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) |
drew365 |
Jun 6 2003, 12:43 PM
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#11
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These are the good old days! Group: Members Posts: 2,004 Joined: 29-December 02 From: Sunny So. Cal. Member No.: 37 |
I'm close to doing this project. Where's a good supplier for the SS lines and fittings and what size do yall recommend?
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bander |
Jun 6 2003, 01:04 PM
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#12
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 10-April 03 From: New Hampshire Member No.: 556 |
John, Whats the temp rating of the Parker hose?
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scotty |
Jun 6 2003, 01:39 PM
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#13
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The Fun Never Stops Group: Members Posts: 773 Joined: 20-May 03 From: Portland. Oregon (SW) Member No.: 718 Region Association: None |
QUOTE I found that I had to attach many fittings "in place" as the fittings wouldn't go thru the same holes as the hoses.....it ups the PITH a bit. You could always make the holes a 'tad' bigger...after cutting the frigging things too small the first time...BTDTBTTS (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) |
maf914 |
Jun 6 2003, 01:39 PM
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#14
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Not a Guru! Group: Members Posts: 3,049 Joined: 30-April 03 From: Central Florida Member No.: 632 Region Association: None |
Does anyone know what the flow rate of a typical automotive oil pump is? Gallons per minute or lliters per minute. I would like to calculate the pressure loss through an external cooler system.
Mike |
J P Stein |
Jun 6 2003, 02:13 PM
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#15
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(drew365 @ Jun 6 2003, 10:43 AM) I'm close to doing this project. Where's a good supplier for the SS lines and fittings and what size do yall recommend? Summit Racing. 12AN minimum. BTW, for flow: Go out and turn on your garden hose full blast. There is 4 bar thru a 1/2 inch line. The 9eleben oil pump is NOT typical. The scavenge side of the pump will put out in excess of 150 psi with cold oil & a cooler. Dunno diddly bout a t-4 pump. Bigger....right, the other end is even worser Attached image(s) |
maf914 |
Jun 6 2003, 02:36 PM
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#16
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Not a Guru! Group: Members Posts: 3,049 Joined: 30-April 03 From: Central Florida Member No.: 632 Region Association: None |
JP,
Good points about about garden hose and 911 pressure. But it doesn't really give an idea about flow. A positive displacement gear pump will produce tremendous pressure at low flow or against high resistance, hence the various pressure relief devices in engines. When the engine is nice and tight the pressure is high because of this. Just because you have 150 psi, say 10 bar appoximately, in the 911 doesn't mean it will flow 2.5 times the volume of a garden hose that normally sees 4 bar or 60 psi. The 4 bar in the street main is pushing as much as it can through the 1/2" hose. The 10 bar at the 911 pump is pushing everything it can through small bearing clearances and other ports, all small by comparison to a garden hose. Just rambling I guess. I don't know the answer. Something to think about though. Mike |
J P Stein |
Jun 6 2003, 02:50 PM
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#17
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
The 4 bar is normal pressure for a 911 motor ...hot, at 4000 rpms..on the pressure side...feeding the bearings & stuff. The garden hose was a rough parallel, discounting viscosity & all.
The scavenge side feeds.....ah....the ex-cooler & the oil filter.....no pressure reliefs...it just "has at" any restrictions. It WILL empty 12 quarts onto the ground in 10 sec or so when it finds a way out. BTDT, got the t-shirt & pics. Fluidyne coolers are gud, but not that gud Attached image(s) |
brant |
Jun 6 2003, 02:56 PM
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#18
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,618 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
just want to clarify for people...
the size (AN10.. AN12.. AN16) is different dependant upon your motor needs. 12 is common on 6 cylinders 10 is common on 4 cylinders and my buddy with a 3.6 conversion is using 16 and up.... brant |
campbellcj |
Jun 7 2003, 11:53 PM
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#19
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I can't Re Member Group: Members Posts: 4,542 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Agoura, CA Member No.: 21 Region Association: Southern California |
My new cooler has AN-12 lines sourced from Earls, and a Troutman thermostat. The cooler is a MazdaComp (now called MazdaSpeed Motorsports or something like that) which is about 22" x 6" x 2.5"...huge...it was very expensive but came highly recommended and since I drive in >100F heat regularly, I cannot take shortcuts on cooling.
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914Timo |
Jun 8 2003, 03:38 AM
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#20
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******* Group: Members Posts: 743 Joined: 13-January 03 From: Finland Member No.: 137 Region Association: Europe |
Marc-André, I have about 4 meter steel hydraulic pipe under the rocker coves.
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