REAR Control Arm - HELP !, Need Help Options

[ajracer]

Just thought someone might know the answer to my questions.
Problem is my Control arms appear to be really, really stiff in their
movement (after the struts were removed) With nothing restricting
their movement I found it very diffficult to move them up or down
to simulate the normal suspension travel !

The bushings appear to be just the factory "rubber' ones and nothing
seems to pivot very well. Is this normal ? Should I be concerned ?
Any comments are appreciated. Thanks

Allan

[bondo]

Mine were like that. I think it's normal, or normal for original ones that are 30 years old anyways. Mine probably took 15 lbs of force on the ends to pivot. Not ideal but compared to the weight of the car it's not that big of a deal. My rubber bushings are in good shape, so I'm keeping them. Not sure what to replace them with if they need it... roller bearings are expensive, poly bearings oval fast. I haven't heard many details on polybronze bushings, they may be the way to go.

[skline]

Are they new? I know when I put my new rubber ones in they were pretty stiff. I changed them out and put in the Weltmeister urethane and they didnt seem to be a whole lot better but they squeak like hell. I am waiting for the roller bearing ones to install. To answer your question, yes, they are pretty tight.

[Eric_Shea]

The main thing to do at this point (while they're out of the car) is check them. Do a simple measurement with a ruler. Is the shaft migrating toward the top? Are there rust bubbles peaking out around the end of the shaft where it meets the bushing?

You can go Roller Bearings for around $400 I believe.

Stock Rubber can no longer be had. I like it best of the "stockish" configurations "if" they're still in good shape, meaning they measure out fine.

Weltmeister's go for around $35.00 and it's best to take a Dremel and groove the inside and load them up with Mobil1 before install. From what I've seen, they don't last nearly as long as the stock rubber. Some have installed zerk fittings and apply grease to them regularly. This will stop the squeak and probably extend their life.

[davep]

Basically, the shaft and arm are both bonded to the rubber. It tends to act like a spring. As has been said, if the bushing is still in good shape and you don't wish to upgrade, just leave it alone. Installing plastic bushings is quite an exercise to do correctly. Best is the bearings that were mentioned. Overall, I'd guess the bearings would be about the same cost as installing plastic bushings properly unless you don't mind constant squeeking and binding from the plastic. There may also be an issue of longevity with the plastic compared to the bearings.

[ajracer]

Thanks Guys !

The rubbers appear to be in great shape, just really tight.
Regarding the actual force required to move the control
arm up or down is about 50 lbs ++ in order words it was
really hard to force "Upward". In other words this little
fellow had to really work to get it up.

Since it was mentioned that the bushing is "rubber
mounted to both the control arm AND the shaft that might
explain the reason it is so darn tight, or maybe it is New
and never been driven ?

Would it help or hurt to use some penetrating fluid to try
and free up somewhat. Otherwise since it is not broken
there is no more reason to take apart further or do any
more work to it. My main reason for removing the arms
was to install the boxed arm reinforcement kit in
preparation for the V8 conversion. As well to gut out the
area in order to do a trail fitting with my LT1 engine and driveline.

Thanks again guys really appreciate the feedback.

Allan

[davep]

No, don't use penetrating fluid, that could make it worse. The rubber was never a replaceable part. It is not designed to be removed. It is not supposed to slip. Solvents will cause the rubber to expand

[Joe Ricard]

Some would say that if you are going to add more power you would need more tire for traction. More grip will put more stress on the rubber bushings causing them to deflect more changing your toe angles etc. If it were me I would spend the money for either bearing or bronze bushings. I put Plastic race compound in and will se how long they last. Arms do move with less stiction than stock.

[turbo914v8]

Hey Allan buy my tub and you will get all that and more. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

Regards,

Turbo Paul.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (ajracer @ Feb 25 2005, 01:05 PM)

The rubbers appear to be in great shape, just really tight. Regarding the actual force required to move the control arm up or down is about 50 lbs... Since it was mentioned that the bushing is "rubber mounted to both the control arm AND the shaft that might explain the reason it is so darn tight... ...My main reason for removing the arms was to install the boxed arm reinforcement kit in preparation for the V8 conversion.

yes - not just "rubber mounted" -- the inner pivot shaft is BONDED to the rubber bushing - which is BONDED to the trailing arm. IOW - it's a big torsion spring.

if you remove the molded-in rubber bush you will change the spring rate of the rear suspension, for which most people compensate by adding stiffer springs. i gather you already have stiffer springs on your shopping list with a V8 conversion...

but we can save you a bit more work - nowadays the boxed arm reinforcement is seen as a BAD thing. it adds unsprung weight, it adds thermal stresses to the trailing arm, and it adds stiffness to a part that doesn't needed it.

one of the jobs of the trailing arm is to bend in an impact to protect the suspension pickups in the tub. if you don't have an impact, you don't have stresses enough to require reinforcement.

look at it this way - the trailing arm is a fuse. you can put a bigger fuse in your house breaker box, but it just means that when you get an overload your fuse will survive at the cost of your house.

but - it's your car - do what you want...

[soloracer]

QUOTE (turbo914v8 @ Feb 25 2005, 10:25 AM)

Hey Allan buy my tub and you will get all that and more. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) Regards, Turbo Paul.

Does this mean you've abandoned project "Twin Turbo V8"?

[ajracer]

UPDATE

Well today Turbo Paul dropped by and assisted with my extracting my broken control arm bolt, as well as checked over my Project Car. After he left I began the process of Cleaning and sandblasting the control arms before I begun the process of welding on the re-inforcement kit from "Maddog" . They look really good and are well made, did need to slightly modify one since it apprears not all 914 control arms are created
equally. Got one all welded up, the welds grinded and now moving unto # 2 before I get them ready for POR-15 treatment and prepare for re-installing on the vehicle. Thats it for now.

Allan

[turbo914v8]

Good day all,

Allan and I had a bit of a party removing his broken control bolt. Very little work and a lot of talking and planning. I must say that Allan's work is first rate. He has a lot of great ideas and is not afraid to be the first to try something new. Keep close count of his updates, I am sure that we will learn a thing or two.

Soloracer Project Twin Turbo 914V8 lives on and has not been abandoned. I have been challenged by a supercharged 911 and must up the ante. I am in the process of building a new 914 tub with full cage and tied suspension points to take the 1000+HP Twin Turbo v8. I have invested all that I can in the current tub and don’t want to take it apart again, so I have decided to sell it and start from scratch with a new tub.

Regards,

Turbo Paul.