Found the problem, its not looking good & it gets worse Options

[Cj Honeycutt]

Send BOTH HEADS to Len at HAM. One intake seat came out; the others will be relatively soon. Don't ask how I know this.

--DD

Wasn't this already suggested ??

[euro911]

I've had worse looking pistons. I had about 70k miles on an 1835 T-1 motor that busted an exhaust seat - just checked the rings and replaced the heads. I sold the car when it 175k on the motor and it still ran great.

I agree, take the heads back to the shop that originally did the work - they might fix that Pro Bono (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

I gave one shop three chances at that. I finally used a different shop, and somehow or another the seats stopped dropping...

--DD

[brant]

There is a chance the rod is now slightly bent. Skip checking that and you may end up doing the motor again.

[rhodyguy]

Shipping a set back and forth will cost a fortune. No telling how customs are going to see it.

[euro911]

Shipping a set back and forth will cost a fortune. No telling how customs are going to see it.

I didn't see where he stated where he had the heads done - just figured it was local to him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[rhodyguy]

See post #1 mark.

[euro911]

See post #1 mark.

I know my eyes have gotten worse over the years, Kev, but not that bad.

Still not seeing where the heads were reconditioned (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Some of you may have read my earlier pleas for help when my engine suddenly would not start. I thought it was the FI but after following the advice of members I did a compression and leak down test and discovered Zero compression and 100% leakage on #2.
With a heavy heart I pulled the engine, the pictures say it all.
I had the heads rebuilt earlier this year and have not done more than 300 miles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

Some questions:
what else needs to be checked for damage?
I need some new heads does anyone have some ready to use heads for a 75 2.0?
I guess the piston is also unusable, if I get some aftermarket P&C can I just install them without replacing the bushings on the connecting rods?

I guess the summer will be over before the engine is fixed.

[DavidSweden]

Shipping a set back and forth will cost a fortune. No telling how customs are going to see it.

The heads were rebuilt locally in Gothenburg Sweden. I asked if they knew about air cooled motors and they assured me they knew what they were doing obviously they didn't.
The shop is closed (summer holiday) until August. I will return both heads and see what they say. Even if they agree to replace the valve seats (4 were replaced on the rebuild) I don't have any confidence in their work. I got hold of some used heads from a member and they are on there way from the US. These heads should be ok to get the car running for whats left of the summer
You guys have it good your side of the pond, parts are readily available and machine shop costs although not cheap are a lot more reasonable than Sweden.
Unluckily for me the dollar has gone through the roof so imported parts are getting expensive plus theres 25% import duty on the part cost plus the shipping costs. I hate lying to the wife when she asks me how much this engine rebuilt has cost.

[Cj Honeycutt]

Agree with taking them back for a refund, but NOT work/rework. If the person repacked parachutes, would you go back ? Not likely. Get as much money back as you can.

The used heads you have coming have many advantages to yours reworked (by anyone) as many have already suggested. I want to add my 2 cents:

The used heads have already been thermal cycled many, many times and are still OK (assumption here) based on the seller and you agreeing they are "good heads". So, the chances of a seat failure are unlikely if all other aspects of your engine running are as they should be. This option for you seems like the best based on the information you provided to the Board.

Here is my 2 cents: Remove the valve keepers and spring(s) from each of the four exhaust valves prior to installing. Push the exhaust valve open with your finger about what the cam would when installed. Then, rock the valve face perpendicular to the valve shaft back and fourth, then move your fingers 90 degrees and repeat. If the valve rocks about 3 mm to each side, you need guides and will most likely have smoke when you lift as the intakes will also be worn only not as much. Installing Silcon Bronze guides and hand lapping the valves (your self) will buy you some time with the used heads. If the rocking of the valves is less than the above, you are good for many, many carefree miles.

Spend the time enjoying your used heads saving to have your original heads done up right by the folks I and several others have recommend as the heads are the key to the 2.0 engine long life and performance. Spend the money on heads as the stock bottom end is nearly bullet proof when taken care of.

Hope this helps. CJ

[DavidSweden]

I pulled the head for #3/4 this afternoon and got more bad news. The intake valve seat on #3 had dropped. The piston has hit the intake valve and broken the rocker arm.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1300.photobucket.com-17452-1437407864.1.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1300.photobucket.com-17452-1437407864.2.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1300.photobucket.com-17452-1437407864.3.jpg)

I found a Rocker arm for a type IV it has the same part # can anyone say if its the correct part for a 2.0 76?

Help much appreciated as I am beginning to get a little disheartened

[Cj Honeycutt]

Crap ! In this case, the push rod is almost for sure bent. It usually pays the price for the rocker, but not in this case ! You must check the push rod too.

You really need to have a chat with your head guy....

[Valy]

When did you last adjust the valves? Did you have a big gap on the valves that broke?
If the seat dropped, I would expect the valve to remain down and hit the piston but what caused the valve to not open at all or go up when the camshaft lobe was closing it and brake the rocker?
Is your camshaft correctly aligned to the crankshaft?
What camshaft do you have?
Can you push open the valve that broke the rocker?

RE: rocker arm - there are 2 types: 8mm and 10mm diameter. You want the 10mm for the 2.0L. I'm not sure what size is the one you found. Those are available used and you could also use a 8mm one if you get the right adjuster for it.

**EDIT** that is the correct 10mm size for your 2L.

[DavidSweden]

When did you last adjust the valves? Did you have a big gap on the valves that broke?
If the seat dropped, I would expect the valve to remain down and hit the piston but what caused the valve to not open at all or go up when the camshaft lobe was closing it and brake the rocker?
Is your camshaft correctly aligned to the crankshaft?
What camshaft do you have?
Can you push open the valve that broke the rocker?

RE: rocker arm - there are 2 types: 8mm and 10mm diameter. You want the 10mm for the 2.0L. I'm not sure what size is the one you found. Those are available used and you could also use a 8mm one if you get the right adjuster for it.

**EDIT** that is the correct 10mm size for your 2L.

I see your point. I am running a stock cam. Perhaps the rocker failure and the seat failure are not connected? Everything was aligned and the valves adjusted to spec.
Anyone got any ideas?

[euro911]

Interesting that you didn't see low compression & leakage for cyl #3 as well during your initial testing.

Were the heads assembled when you received them? ... or did you reassemble them?

Wondering what the 2 valve stems and guides look like ?

While 2.0L heads do flow better, they also have a history of dropping seats.

Did you notice high engine temperatures anytime during that 300 miles?

[DavidSweden]

Interesting that you didn't see low compression & leakage for cyl #3 as well during your initial testing.

Were the heads assembled when you received them? ... or did you reassemble them?

Wondering what the 2 valve stems and guides look like ?

While 2.0L heads do flow better, they also have a history of dropping seats.

Did you notice high engine temperatures anytime during that 300 miles?

I did not do a compression/leak down on # 3, I pulled the engine after seeing the result for #2
The engine never ran hot and the heads were delivered assembled. I do not want to dismantle the heads to examine the vale guides etc before I return them to the shop.

[Valy]

Can you push open the valves that broke/bent the valve train?

[DavidSweden]

Can you push open the valves that broke/bent the valve train?

When you say push open do you mean by hand or with the use of a tool?

Heres what it looked like when I removed the valve cover, to quote another member "people like carnage"

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1300.photobucket.com-17452-1437426856.1.jpg)

[stugray]

Perhaps the rocker failure and the seat failure are not connected? Everything was aligned and the valves adjusted to spec.
Anyone got any ideas?

If the seat begins to drop (from your pic lets call it 10mm) then the valve cannot move all the way back to where the rocker was set for lash.

So now instead of .006 valve lash you now have 10mm valve lash.
The rocker will bang around in there as the seat drops until the pushrod jumped out of the cup.
Not surprising that the rocker arm would take a beating.

[DavidSweden]

Perhaps the rocker failure and the seat failure are not connected? Everything was aligned and the valves adjusted to spec.
Anyone got any ideas?

If the seat begins to drop (from your pic lets call it 10mm) then the valve cannot move all the way back to where the rocker was set for lash.

So now instead of .006 valve lash you now have 10mm valve lash.
The rocker will bang around in there as the seat drops until the pushrod jumped out of the cup.
Not surprising that the rocker arm would take a beating.

That makes sense. Thanks