Considering coilovers, Let me know your set-ups Options

[john77]

The suspension on my car is tired, so I'm considering a complete overhaul. It's an AX street car, so I've started looking at switching to coilovers all-round.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has them about your set-ups/experiences: What springs you're running, what shocks you're running, did you have to reinforce your shock towers, are you running just springs up front or a spring/torsion bar mix, do you have raised spindles, and anything else you think might be useful.

I've been looking at the elephant racing site, they have great stuff and there's obviously a lot of R&D behind their packages, but I'm wondering if I can put something together myself for less $$$$.

Thanks
John

[Mblizzard]

I just went to coil overs on the rear of my car. Don't have a lot of miles in them yet but they are a huge improvement. I have 150 lb springs with Komi adjustable shocks

I think unless you are strictly AX you have to go with a truly adjustable shock as it gives you the best of everything. On firm I think my car will handle with the best of them. On full soft it is really nice to just cruise in.

[stownsen914]

My advice for a street car is to keep the spring rate to 150 lbs/in max. Even for a race or AX car, if the chassis isn't reinforced, I like to keep the spring rate to that same amount (otherwise flex in the chassis becomes the "spring"). I'm not sure that opinion is very popular though since I see that others on this board like stiff springs like 200-300 lbs/in.

As for whether to reinforce the shock towers, I've heard that the early 914s (maybe up to '72?) have thinner metal in the shock tower area and may require reinforcement. I'm not aware that the later cars have that problem. Perhaps folks with early cars and heavier suspension can chime in on this.

Scott

[john77]

I just went to coil overs on the rear of my car. Don't have a lot of miles in them yet but they are a huge improvement. I have 150 lb springs with Komi adjustable shocks

I think unless you are strictly AX you have to go with a truly adjustable shock as it gives you the best of everything. On firm I think my car will handle with the best of them. On full soft it is really nice to just cruise in.

Thanks Mike. I hadn't even thought about adjustable shocks, sounds like a good idea. What made you decide to go with coilovers in the back only?

[john77]

My advice for a street car is to keep the spring rate to 150 lbs/in max. Even for a race or AX car, if the chassis isn't reinforced, I like to keep the spring rate to that same amount (otherwise flex in the chassis becomes the "spring"). I'm not sure that opinion is very popular though since I see that others on this board like stiff springs like 200-300 lbs/in.

As for whether to reinforce the shock towers, I've heard that the early 914s (maybe up to '72?) have thinner metal in the shock tower area and may require reinforcement. I'm not aware that the later cars have that problem. Perhaps folks with early cars and heavier suspension can chime in on this.

Scott

Thanks Scott. At the moment, spring rates seem like a dark art to me. I think I need to do a lot of reading up.

[Mblizzard]

I just went to coil overs on the rear of my car. Don't have a lot of miles in them yet but they are a huge improvement. I have 150 lb springs with Komi adjustable shocks

I think unless you are strictly AX you have to go with a truly adjustable shock as it gives you the best of everything. On firm I think my car will handle with the best of them. On full soft it is really nice to just cruise in.

Thanks Mike. I hadn't even thought about adjustable shocks, sounds like a good idea. What made you decide to go with coilovers in the back only?

There is adjustment in ride height in the front with the stock set up but none in back. So the coil overs were an easy way to get rear height adjustment and an overall better set up.

The 150 lb guidance is spot in. As I drove mine today and it was great and not too harsh.

[brant]

I know it sucks to say "do a search"
sorry I don't have links for you
but the question has come up a bunch of times


here Is my opinion... but only one opinion

the stock suspension on the back already is a coil over
so for sake of accuracy, the pictures in this thread were updates to an adjustable coil over.... yes as mike said it gives ride height adjustability to the rear that is more infinite than the 3 settings on the bilsteen type rear shocks.

the ability to adjust ride height for the purpose of corner balancing is important for a race car or autox race car.

but the front suspension in stock form already has this adjustability

the front coil overs offer some draw backs and are a very specific solution for a very specific problem. If you don't need to solve that problem then they are not necessary for the masses...

pro's on front coil overs:
- easier and quicker to change spring rate (good if you change suspension spring rates for different tracks and want to be able to do it quicker than stock)
-cool bling

con's for front coil overs:
-moves weight up higher than the stock design
-moves weight a little bit from unsprung to sprung weight
-doesn't change suspension design without other modifications at the same time.... ie rsr strut (doesn't improve the car's handling over stock)
-can bump cars to a higher classification in racing or even out of legality in some vintage racing.


really the biggest reason for front coil overs is to allow quick spring changes. If you are not doing spring rate changes for different events, it doesn't make sense in my book

again just one opinion
better explained in many many past threads

[Mblizzard]

I know it sucks to say "do a search"
sorry I don't have links for you
but the question has come up a bunch of times


here Is my opinion... but only one opinion

the stock suspension on the back already is a coil over
so for sake of accuracy, the pictures in this thread were updates to an adjustable coil over.... yes as mike said it gives ride height adjustability to the rear that is more infinite than the 3 settings on the bilsteen type rear shocks.

the ability to adjust ride height for the purpose of corner balancing is important for a race car or autox race car.

but the front suspension in stock form already has this adjustability

the front coil overs offer some draw backs and are a very specific solution for a very specific problem. If you don't need to solve that problem then they are not necessary for the masses...

pro's on front coil overs:
- easier and quicker to change spring rate (good if you change suspension spring rates for different tracks and want to be able to do it quicker than stock)
-cool bling

con's for front coil overs:
-moves weight up higher than the stock design
-moves weight a little bit from unsprung to sprung weight
-doesn't change suspension design without other modifications at the same time.... ie rsr strut (doesn't improve the car's handling over stock)
-can bump cars to a higher classification in racing or even out of legality in some vintage racing.


really the biggest reason for front coil overs is to allow quick spring changes. If you are not doing spring rate changes for different events, it doesn't make sense in my book

again just one opinion
better explained in many many past threads

Pretty damn good explanation!

[ThePaintedMan]

Brant, as usual, hit it spot on. And I would even suggest that it's almost as quick to change torsion bars as it is to swap coils. Only takes me 10 or 15 minutes. Plus torsion bars take up a lot less storage space!

[john77]

I know it sucks to say "do a search"
sorry I don't have links for you
but the question has come up a bunch of times


here Is my opinion... but only one opinion

the stock suspension on the back already is a coil over
so for sake of accuracy, the pictures in this thread were updates to an adjustable coil over.... yes as mike said it gives ride height adjustability to the rear that is more infinite than the 3 settings on the bilsteen type rear shocks.

the ability to adjust ride height for the purpose of corner balancing is important for a race car or autox race car.

but the front suspension in stock form already has this adjustability

the front coil overs offer some draw backs and are a very specific solution for a very specific problem. If you don't need to solve that problem then they are not necessary for the masses...

pro's on front coil overs:
- easier and quicker to change spring rate (good if you change suspension spring rates for different tracks and want to be able to do it quicker than stock)
-cool bling

con's for front coil overs:
-moves weight up higher than the stock design
-moves weight a little bit from unsprung to sprung weight
-doesn't change suspension design without other modifications at the same time.... ie rsr strut (doesn't improve the car's handling over stock)
-can bump cars to a higher classification in racing or even out of legality in some vintage racing.


really the biggest reason for front coil overs is to allow quick spring changes. If you are not doing spring rate changes for different events, it doesn't make sense in my book

again just one opinion
better explained in many many past threads

Thanks Brant. Apologies for my laziness, I was kind of hoping for feedback on what springs I should run all round and hadn't really considered not changing to coilovers. I guess I thought it was a given that they were the way to go, so hadn't even considered the alternatives. I'll start doing some research on front strut/shock/torsion bar combos.

[brant]

lots of torsion bars available

there are charts to show their effective spring rates for comparison purposes.

available in hollow or solid, many heavier rates, and even 914 vs 911 splines

the front coil overs will be available in more finite rates, if say you wanted 25lbs more than X.... where as the bars rates are spaced slightly further apart

but for a street car or DE/casual autox car, no need to go to coil overs
spend the money on tires


is this a car driven to the events, or trailered?

a nice dual use car would be great with stock front torsion bars, or 19mm 911 front torsion bars... 140 or 150 rear springs.... decent bushings... and a big sway bar
PLUS GOOD TIRES and GOOD brake pads

brant

[naro914]

very nice explanation brant!

Papa Smurf - our full out race car, has coilovers with remote canister shocks front and rear. This was done primarily because it also has the ERP 935 front control arm set up that eliminates the torsion bars, and has adjustable spindle height. And...I do adjust the shock C/R for different tracks. Really never change the springs though (500/550 lbs).

Huey has stock torsion bar front (I can't remember what size...but big and stiff), stock coil over rear w/180 lb springs - and VERY old worn out Bilsteins all around. One day planning to go with Koni adjustables...

[Mblizzard]

very nice explanation brant!

Papa Smurf - our full out race car, has coilovers with remote canister shocks front and rear. This was done primarily because it also has the ERP 935 front control arm set up that eliminates the torsion bars, and has adjustable spindle height. And...I do adjust the shock C/R for different tracks. Really never change the springs though (500/550 lbs).

Huey has stock torsion bar front (I can't remember what size...but big and stiff), stock coil over rear w/180 lb springs - and VERY old worn out Bilsteins all around. One day planning to go with Koni adjustables...

Cant believe my old beater has better shocks than Huey! I will have to say that the adjustable are really very nice. I think that having the ability to soften them a bit makes a huge difference when driving for pleasure and not speed.

[naro914]

Cant believe my old beater has better shocks than Huey! I will have to say that the adjustable are really very nice. I think that having the ability to soften them a bit makes a huge difference when driving for pleasure and not speed.

I don't want to hear "old beater"...didn't you have a class win one year at Okteenerfest? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

And yes...in many ways Huey is very stock. In other ways no (like engine, brakes and safety/stripped out stuff)

[john77]

lots of torsion bars available

there are charts to show their effective spring rates for comparison purposes.

available in hollow or solid, many heavier rates, and even 914 vs 911 splines

the front coil overs will be available in more finite rates, if say you wanted 25lbs more than X.... where as the bars rates are spaced slightly further apart

but for a street car or DE/casual autox car, no need to go to coil overs
spend the money on tires


is this a car driven to the events, or trailered?

a nice dual use car would be great with stock front torsion bars, or 19mm 911 front torsion bars... 140 or 150 rear springs.... decent bushings... and a big sway bar
PLUS GOOD TIRES and GOOD brake pads

brant

I drive it to events, it's about a 45 min drive on the freeway.

At the moment my car is unflared, running toyo R1R 140AA tread tires on 15x7 fuchs - 225s in the back 215s in the front. Front brakes are BMW E series, rears are 911 M calipers. The brakes are the ones that came on the car, so I have no idea what the pads are. I have a set of Rebel Racing front control arm bushings I'm going to put on, but I'm waiting to figure out the other suspension upgrades so I can do it all it one go.

In the long term, I'm seriously thinking about flaring the car. Dumb question: Would that then mean having to upgrade the suspension again?

[john77]

very nice explanation brant!

Papa Smurf - our full out race car, has coilovers with remote canister shocks front and rear. This was done primarily because it also has the ERP 935 front control arm set up that eliminates the torsion bars, and has adjustable spindle height. And...I do adjust the shock C/R for different tracks. Really never change the springs though (500/550 lbs).

Huey has stock torsion bar front (I can't remember what size...but big and stiff), stock coil over rear w/180 lb springs - and VERY old worn out Bilsteins all around. One day planning to go with Koni adjustables...

I do like the idea of Koni adjustables. I have them on my WRX and they are so simple to adjust. Is Huey reinforced in any way?

[Mblizzard]

Cant believe my old beater has better shocks than Huey! I will have to say that the adjustable are really very nice. I think that having the ability to soften them a bit makes a huge difference when driving for pleasure and not speed.

I don't want to hear "old beater"...didn't you have a class win one year at Okteenerfest? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

And yes...in many ways Huey is very stock. In other ways no (like engine, brakes and safety/stripped out stuff)

Ok point taken there on the beater! But it does show just how good a mostly stock 914 like Huey can be with the right improvements. Certainly Huey would not suffer from some new shocks but still is a really sweet ride.

[john77]

I just went to coil overs on the rear of my car. Don't have a lot of miles in them yet but they are a huge improvement. I have 150 lb springs with Komi adjustable shocks

I think unless you are strictly AX you have to go with a truly adjustable shock as it gives you the best of everything. On firm I think my car will handle with the best of them. On full soft it is really nice to just cruise in.

Mike, where did you get your rears from? Or did you buy them as separate pieces and put them together yourself?

[Mblizzard]

I just went to coil overs on the rear of my car. Don't have a lot of miles in them yet but they are a huge improvement. I have 150 lb springs with Komi adjustable shocks

I think unless you are strictly AX you have to go with a truly adjustable shock as it gives you the best of everything. On firm I think my car will handle with the best of them. On full soft it is really nice to just cruise in.

Mike, where did you get your rears from? Or did you buy them as separate pieces and put them together yourself?

John I got them from a member on the World. But I had been looking and researching for a while and it was just pure chance that these were exactly what I had decided I wanted. Seems like my research was really close to the recommendations in this thread.

[jd74914]

Mike, where did you get your rears from? Or did you buy them as separate pieces and put them together yourself?

If you want to go with Bilstein shocks I can post up the list of parts to DIY tonight (much cheaper than buying a kit from Ground Control, etc.).