How to free up a seized engine, Help needed! |
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How to free up a seized engine, Help needed! |
schreiber |
Sep 14 2015, 09:45 AM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 137 Joined: 26-June 07 From: Huntsville, AL Member No.: 7,843 Region Association: South East States |
I picked up a really rough 1972 914 a couple weeks ago. No idea when it last ran. I want to try to get the 1.7L running again. I’ve been putting Marvel Mystery Oil in through the spark plug holes. I’ve used a couple quarts in the last 7 days, rocking the car back and forth in 5th gear. I’ve tried jacking up one side and turning the rear wheel by hand, but can’t get the leverage to get the engine to turn over. Are there any other tips or tricks to unseizing this thing? I looked through some older threads, but wanted get all my options in front of me before dropping the engine and try to turn it over by hand.
Links to previous discussion or discussion outside this forum are welcome. |
Porschef |
Sep 14 2015, 10:19 AM
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#2
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How you doin' Group: Members Posts: 2,165 Joined: 7-September 10 From: LawnGuyland Member No.: 12,152 Region Association: North East States |
MMO is good stuff but if you seek the ultimate in penetrating agents, mix yourself up an 50/50 blend of acetone and ATF. Do the same as you already did, let it sit a few days. Amazing how well it works.
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EdwardBlume |
Sep 14 2015, 10:28 AM
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#3
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 12,338 Joined: 2-January 03 From: SLO Member No.: 81 Region Association: Central California |
I 5th geared Dads car after sitting 10 years. Got it rolling and then popped it. It literally popped. Ran fine after that.
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brettrarnold |
Sep 14 2015, 12:26 PM
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#4
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New 914 owner in Lakewood CO Group: Members Posts: 89 Joined: 11-September 15 From: Lakewood, Colorado Member No.: 19,149 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
I picked up a really rough 1972 914 a couple weeks ago. No idea when it last ran. I want to try to get the 1.7L running again. I’ve been putting Marvel Mystery Oil in through the spark plug holes. I’ve used a couple quarts in the last 7 days, rocking the car back and forth in 5th gear. I’ve tried jacking up one side and turning the rear wheel by hand, but can’t get the leverage to get the engine to turn over. Are there any other tips or tricks to unseizing this thing? I looked through some older threads, but wanted get all my options in front of me before dropping the engine and try to turn it over by hand. Links to previous discussion or discussion outside this forum are welcome. I ran into the exact same issue with my 73 914 1.7 that sat for 10-15 years. Spent some time rocking and rocking while putting mystery oil in the spark plugs but to no avail. Now planning on removing engine for a rebuild. Oh well and now I get to learn about engines. Rookie here so am intimidated. -Brett |
r_towle |
Sep 14 2015, 01:44 PM
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#5
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,584 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
Strip it, pull the heads.
Place case in a large bucket. Drown in purple power cleaner, keep checking because overnight can eat aluminum. You can also use plain coca cola |
eyesright |
Sep 19 2015, 05:49 PM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 430 Joined: 8-January 12 From: OK Member No.: 13,979 Region Association: Southwest Region |
MMO is good stuff but if you seek the ultimate in penetrating agents, mix yourself up an 50/50 blend of acetone and ATF. Do the same as you already did, let it sit a few days. Amazing how well it works. Well, here goes. This Honda CL 90 may have been submerged. I've used MMO and PB Blaster and things are still locked up. And since the clutch and gearbox share engine oil I can't even drop it into gear. It may be hopeless. BTW the acetone and ATF don't mix. I had to homogenize it by hand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
rgalla9146 |
Sep 19 2015, 06:02 PM
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#7
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,560 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Paramus NJ Member No.: 5,176 Region Association: None |
Put the engine in a fast moving cold water creek.
Check it every couple of weeks. It'll free right up. I actually had an old timer tell me to do that. I've heard some crazy things but this is way up there. |
messix |
Sep 19 2015, 09:27 PM
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#8
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AKA "CLUTCH KILLER"! Group: Members Posts: 6,995 Joined: 14-April 05 From: between shit kickers and pinky lifters/ puget sound wa.north of Seattle south of Canada Member No.: 3,931 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
48 volts to the starter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)
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Tucker |
Nov 24 2015, 09:22 PM
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#9
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 15-November 15 From: westmoreland tennessee Member No.: 19,366 Region Association: None |
I also have a 73-914 the engine also stuck and wouldn't turn,,ive used marvel oil a long time..after a day or so of soak in cylinders I broke mine loose just bumping the starter. ive done it twice before.a few times a day bump the starter.be patient,i think it will come to u JT
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veekry9 |
Nov 25 2015, 06:20 AM
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#10
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJDT04DOalI Frozen engine? Rust in the cylinders,broken valve head,piston. Nowadays,the tech exists to look inside,non-destructively to determine the cause. Save yourself the hassle of an attempted resurrection of a blown engine. 'Forcing' an aircooled 4 or 6 would result in more damage. A methodical approach,the right way the first time,this no time to experiment. Buy the camera,toss it in your toolbox and live happier. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
rgalla9146 |
Nov 25 2015, 06:52 AM
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#11
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,560 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Paramus NJ Member No.: 5,176 Region Association: None |
Remove the starter.
Use a big screwdriver to lever the flywheel. One direction then the other. Roll the car, pop the clutch ? Only if you want to repair far more than a stuck engine. Click the starter repeatedly ? Only if you want to torture test your starter. And wiring. If it won't turn using a the flywheel / screwdriver take the engine apart. You could have one stuck piston and maybe loosen it up. But if it's more than one or a variety of other things you are delaying the inevitable. MMO and time are a good start. My 2 cents. |
EdwardBlume |
Nov 25 2015, 08:02 AM
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#12
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 12,338 Joined: 2-January 03 From: SLO Member No.: 81 Region Association: Central California |
Remove the starter. Use a big screwdriver to lever the flywheel. One direction then the other. Roll the car, pop the clutch ? Only if you want to repair far more than a stuck engine. Click the starter repeatedly ? Only if you want to torture test your starter. And wiring. If it won't turn using a the flywheel / screwdriver take the engine apart. You could have one stuck piston and maybe loosen it up. But if it's more than one or a variety of other things you are delaying the inevitable. MMO and time are a good start. My 2 cents. He's right. After popping mine loose in 5th gear, it only ran perfectly for years up to 86K miles on it..... then I tore the engine down because of the heads leaking oil, and decided to build a 2056 for fun. After taking the engine apart, I could clearly see the carbon deposits on the pistons that gummed things up. It will either work or it will not. Better than stuck motor. |
BeemerSteve |
Nov 25 2015, 10:09 AM
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 2-September 15 From: Van Zandt, Wa Member No.: 19,123 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Marvel Mystery Oil
Freed up a hibernating Citroën DS that was given to me. It sat in a locked yard for 16 years outside. Pour some down the spark plug holes, let soak for a few days then turn the crank by hand just a bit....then turn some more a little bit each day until you think you can start it. Be patient!! |
last337 |
Nov 25 2015, 10:38 AM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 421 Joined: 4-December 12 From: New Orleans Member No.: 15,221 Region Association: None |
In college my buddy cut a Chrysler 440 out of a car in the back of someone's land and literally cut the engine mounts away from car and moved it out on a front loader. A few months of MMO and he was able to pull it apart. He ended up boring and sleeving the cylinders but got it apart.
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jtprettyman |
Nov 25 2015, 10:57 AM
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#15
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Rust Bucket Owner Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: 5-May 15 From: Murfreesboro Tennessee Member No.: 18,707 Region Association: South East States |
I just went through this with my 74 1.8 derelict. Sat for at least 13 years, unknown everything. Motor was stuck, one of the plugs showed a bit of rust when pulled. I picked up one of the cheap USB borescopes and checked all combustion chambers for existing carnage and found none other than moderate rust. Oil drained and looked very good, no moisture. I overfilled the engine with the lightest weight cheap stuff I could find along with some Marvel Mystery Oil. I then added a 50/50 mix of MMO and ATF to each cylinder and let it all sit for about a week before I started trying to rotate it. Little by little it freed up, kept working it daily for a while - it is now rotating freely. It is going to sit in the pickle juice for a while - I am concentrating more on rust repair than the powertrain right now, but was curious if I could get the engine freed up.
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Catorse |
Nov 25 2015, 11:13 AM
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 27-August 15 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 19,106 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Some of you guys with the marvel mystery oil recommendation are missing the fact that the engine could have had a catastrophic failure. I bought a 944 once that was reported to be seized. I knew full well it was seized when I bought it.
A borescope did not reveal anything serious. When I stripped the motor down, #3 piston was buried in the wall of its own cylinder. Was apparent from the bottom, but not so much from the top because it was almost at TDC. Was a bad rod bearing. No amount of marvel mystery oil was going to free that up :-) |
veekry9 |
Nov 25 2015, 11:52 AM
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#17
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
A conrod will tend to thrash around,making horrible noises on it's way out.Coolant in the oil is a bad sign.
Rust in the bore of an aircooled engine,or any engine,is a sure sign of re+re at minimum. Not removing the cylinders and pistons on seeing rust in the holes is a sure way to waste time and money. May as well hit the cases with a 20lb sledgehammer and finish it off painlessly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) I'm sure,at some point an F-head Ford ran fine with such treatment,but then,you could bore them out 3/8". Finely machined,lightweight and delicate engines are these.Only when you have confirmed the tolerances can you stand on them. They will surprise you how sensitive they can be when things are plain wrong. |
BeemerSteve |
Nov 25 2015, 02:25 PM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 2-September 15 From: Van Zandt, Wa Member No.: 19,123 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Some of you guys with the marvel mystery oil recommendation are missing the fact that the engine could have had a catastrophic failure. I bought a 944 once that was reported to be seized. I knew full well it was seized when I bought it. A borescope did not reveal anything serious. When I stripped the motor down, #3 piston was buried in the wall of its own cylinder. Was apparent from the bottom, but not so much from the top because it was almost at TDC. Was a bad rod bearing. No amount of marvel mystery oil was going to free that up :-) Maybe we got lucky!!! |
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