Troubleshooting an AFR gauge/sensor, l**Finally Figured out my issue** Options

[jim_hoyland]

I installed the Innovate MTX L in 2012 and it worked fine until June of the year when it would go into the E8 mode. The techs say this means a faulty sensor. I replaced it and have continued to have erratic activity.

For example: it may run in an acceptable range for a while, then suddenly go to reading either too high or too low that are unreasonable; it sometimes freezes on a reading, and at other times it goes to E8.If I turn the ignition off and restart the engine, the gauge goes to a normal reading, then goes through the same routine.
This sensor is 3 months old, car is in perfect tune.

I changed the 12v power source, used a different ground, and recalibrated several times

Anyone had experience troubleshooting these AFR's ?

UPDATE_It was caused by contamination ! I have been adding MMO to my my fuel over the past year. When I ran out of MMO, I just ran straightgas without MMO. The AFR sensor reverted to normal operation and all is good. Interesting...you'd think the MMO would burn off or dissipate by the time it reached the exaust. Now I;m wondering if the MMO caused exhaust smoke upon downhill deceleration ?

[bfrymire]

Can't help, but mine has just started doing almost this same exact thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Hard to tune, when you have to keep turning the engine off...

-- brett

[jim_hoyland]

Can't help, but mine has just started doing almost this same exact thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Hard to tune, when you have to keep turning the engine off...

-- brett

How long has it been installed ?

[Dtjaden]

I installed mine about 1 1/2 years ago and have not seen this error. You have probably done these things but I would check and clean all connections and also try reloading the device firmware.

Innovate states the following is the MTX-L manual for an E8:

1. Perform sensor calibration.
2. Move sensor bung as far downstream as possible.
3. Add an HBX-1 (p/n 3729) to isolate the sensor from the pipe.
4. Replace sensor.

Good luck!
Darryl

[Mark Henry]

Can't help you, but it looks like this is a common problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

https://www.google.ca/search?q=Innovate+MTX...vate+MTX+issues

[jim_hoyland]

Can't help you, but it looks like this is a common problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

https://www.google.ca/search?q=Innovate+MTX...vate+MTX+issues

Thanks for posting that link, I'm glad to see others have addressed the same issue:

The first video is exactly how my gauge looks. Sometimes it will go for a long stretch looking normal, then go into that mode shown in the video.

At this point, I'm wondering if adding the isolation part would be useful or whether I should spend another $70 for a replacement sensor; or, dump the AFR entirely ?????

[jim_hoyland]

I installed mine about 1 1/2 years ago and have not seen this error. You have probably done these things but I would check and clean all connections and also try reloading the device firmware.

Innovate states the following is the MTX-L manual for an E8:

1. Perform sensor calibration.
2. Move sensor bung as far downstream as possible.
3. Add an HBX-1 (p/n 3729) to isolate the sensor from the pipe.
4. Replace sensor.

Good luck!
Darryl

Do you use the HBX-1 installed ?

[era vulgaris]

I've got the Innovate MTX-L, and it does this also. Here's what I've found:

The gauge worked fine after I bought the car last winter. In the spring, when ambient temps started changing, it began doing exactly what you describe. I didn't have time at that time to mess with it, so I lived with it. By summer, when the large swings in ambient temps were gone, the problem disappeared with it.
The gauge worked fine all summer. Then a couple weeks ago as the ambient temps started changing again, the problem re-appeared.

I'm going to do nothing again, and see if it disappears by winter. I think the gauge doesn't like large swings in ambient temps.

The E8 issue is a common problem with the MTX-L. I've read a lot of threads on many different car forums about it. I've read about many people wasting money buying new sensors. The only real fix seems to be to buy a better quality gauge. Otherwise just live with it until it goes away on its own.

[jim_hoyland]

The E8 issue is a common problem with the MTX-L. I've read a lot of threads on many different car forums about it. I've read about many people wasting money buying new sensors. The only real fix seems to be to buy a better quality gauge. Otherwise just live with it until it goes away on its own.

Thanks for that , it confirms my thoughts on this products issues. What would you recommend as a replacement ?

[Dtjaden]

I installed mine about 1 1/2 years ago and have not seen this error. You have probably done these things but I would check and clean all connections and also try reloading the device firmware.

Innovate states the following is the MTX-L manual for an E8:

1. Perform sensor calibration.
2. Move sensor bung as far downstream as possible.
3. Add an HBX-1 (p/n 3729) to isolate the sensor from the pipe.
4. Replace sensor.

Good luck!
Darryl

Do you use the HBX-1 installed ?

No HBX-1. It's installed in a bung in my header about 8" back from the collector. When I decided on the mtx-l I looked at the many comments on ALL afr meters. They all seem to have problems for some users - no more for Innovate than others (not that this helps you). Based on some of the comments I read last night I would try reloading the firmware and then do a free air cal.

[jim_hoyland]

[quote name='Dtjaden' date='Oct 7 2015, 07:39 AM' post='2248761']
[quote name='jim_hoyland' post='2248718' date='Oct 7 2015, 05:13 AM']
[quote name='Dtjaden' post='2248620' date='Oct 6 2015, 07:59 PM']
I installed mine about 1 1/2 years ago and have not seen this error. You have probably done these things but I would check and clean all connections and also try reloading the device firmware.


[/quote]

No HBX-1. It's installed in a bung in my header about 8" back from the collector. When I decided on the mtx-l I looked at the many comments on ALL afr meters. They all seem to have problems for some users - no more for Innovate than others (not that this helps you). Based on some of the comments I read last night I would try reloading the firmware and then do a free air cal.
[/quote]

I'll hook it up to the computer and see what firmware I have....Thanks.

[era vulgaris]

So just an update...

As I said I would do earlier in this thread, I've done nothing regarding the E8 error code on my MTX-L. About a week and a half ago it stopped throwing the error code, and it's been working perfectly fine since then without any problems or error codes.

I predict it will continue to work perfectly fine until next spring when ambient temps start their large swings again, at which time it will probably start throwing the E8 code again, and I will do nothing again until ambient temps stabilize and the error code stops.

So if your MTX-L throws an E8 error code, basically just wait a few weeks and the problem will go away. Don't waste $100+ on a new sensor. At least that's my experience. YMMV.

[aircooledtechguy]

I was getting big swings in the readings from my LC-1 AFR gauge recently and it would stick at a number, then go off-line and flash 7.4. Tried re-calibrating, free-air calibrating, nothing helped.

I swapped to a new sensor and BAM, everything works perfectly again. That was my recent experience. . .

[jim_hoyland]

I was getting big swings in the readings from my LC-1 AFR gauge recently and it would stick at a number, then go off-line and flash 7.4. Tried re-calibrating, free-air calibrating, nothing helped.

I swapped to a new sensor and BAM, everything works perfectly again. That was my recent experience. . .

Interesting, what goes wrong with those sensors ? Mine will work perfectly, than swing in readings, then stick on 22.4, then go to E8; if I restart the car, the AFR would work normally again ???

[stugray]

One thing I did to my Innovate LM-1 (same probe ?):

Where it screws into the bung in the header, I took a CPU heatsink (just like glued to the top of most graphics card GPUs, or the older-style CPU heat sinks), then I drilled a hole through the middle and counter bored the heatsink pins off around the hole.
Then I use the Heatsink as a washer when I screwed it back into the Bung.

I read somewhere on the racing forums that if the probe gets TOO hot, then they will fail sooner.
The heatsink keeps it from overheating.

There are also warnings about not running the engine without the probe powered and not running the probe powered without the engine on.

I haven't had any problems with my LM-1

[jim_hoyland]

One thing I did to my Innovate LM-1 (same probe ?):

Where it screws into the bung in the header, I took a CPU heatsink (just like glued to the top of most graphics card GPUs, or the older-style CPU heat sinks), then I drilled a hole through the middle and counter bored the heatsink pins off around the hole.
Then I use the Heatsink as a washer when I screwed it back into the Bung.

I read somewhere on the racing forums that if the probe gets TOO hot, then they will fail sooner.
The heatsink keeps it from overheating.

There are also warnings about not running the engine without the probe powered and not running the probe powered without the engine on.

I haven't had any problems with my LM-1

Wow; that really interesting. I noticed Innovate sells a Heat Sink Bung spacer....
See: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/h...on=0&page=2

[jim_hoyland]

UPDATE_It was caused by contamination ! I have been adding MMO to my my fuel over the past year. When I ran out of MMO, I just ran straightgas without MMO. The AFR sensor reverted to normal operation and all is good. Interesting...you'd think the MMO would burn off or dissipate by the time it reached the exaust. Now I;m wondering if the MMO caused exhaust smoke upon downhill deceleration ?

[boxsterfan]

UPDATE_It was caused by contamination ! I have been adding MMO to my my fuel over the past year. When I ran out of MMO, I just ran straightgas without MMO. The AFR sensor reverted to normal operation and all is good. Interesting...you'd think the MMO would burn off or dissipate by the time it reached the exaust. Now I;m wondering if the MMO caused exhaust smoke upon downhill deceleration ?

Exhaust smoke

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=234366&hl=

[colingreene]

Where did you pull the 12v from?

[jim_hoyland]

Where did you pull the 12v from?

Relay under the dash by the gauge