Introduction and a question Options

[alfadoc]

Hey all,

First post. Introduction follows, please feel free to skip to my real question. Been messing with cars since my early teens, so that makes 40+ years. I'm formerly an ASE Master Tech, used to have my own shop, mostly doing Italian stuff. Did Alfa and Fiat parts for years via mail order, was a buyer in Italy for a while. Kinda been around the block so to say.

Been driving a 944 daily for about 10 years and bought a 911 2 years ago. I've always liked 914s since my first drive, sneaking a friend's Dad's car out when I was 15 and the car was new. I've found locally a 75 914 1.8, Malaga Red/Black, one owner from new, at a very attractive price. I'm about to pull the trigger. It's mostly been garaged over the years, but sadly has been sitting outside for about 5 years. The body was extensively restored in '91, but it's time for round two. It's very complete, all original, about 80K miles.

Cursory examination shows no visible rust in the trunks, the floor pans, the bottoms of the doors or directly under the battery. I'm not sure if looking directly under the battery in the engine compartment is enough to fully investigate the hell hole, so advice is welcome. It's not mine yet, so I haven't had a chance to pull the outer rockers off yet.

The doors shut great, all shut lines look good and the doors don't drag in the openings. I did see right under the A pillar that the longs seam is kinda crusty, so there is some rust lurking for sure.

So here's the question: if I buy this 914 it will go into dry storage, but it may be as much as five years before I can get into serious restoration mode on it. Business is going to take me away for an extended period, and this is almost a project to be taken on in retirement. For the interim, what's the collective wisdom on keeping the rust from getting worse? I can pull the outer rockers before the car goes into mothballs, and I can POR-15 the heck out of everything I can see on the surface. Is there any way to get the POR-15 into the structure where inner and outer longs meet without cutting or extensively dismantling?

I think what I want to do with the car is put together a 2056 on the original 1.8 case, and keep the L-Jet. Very familiar with that injection system from my years on Alfas/Fiats/Lancias etc, and it's well documented in many other threads.

Thanks for reading, and looking forward to responses on the rust issues.

[veekry9]

An inert gas envelope will stop rust indefinitely and even extend rubber's life.
Perhaps a metallized polyethylene sheet and tent affair.
Some rare car owners have gone to such efforts to preserve their "Faberge Eggs".
http://www.celplast.com/product-type/stand...tallized-films/
It looks space age,it is a spinoff,but that will preserve your ultra-rare Porsche 914 for eternity.

edit:An owner of said 911 has his preserved in such a way,very little fast driving involved.
His tent has a zipper so the gas system would not work due to leaks.

[alfadoc]

Useful, thanks. Maybe I should try Rennlist or Pelican, or perhaps there's a Canadian filter I can apply to my posts here. Cheers!

[veekry9]

Think of it as a giant ziplock bag,purged of oxygen,like what we do when welding exotic materials.
The O2 content can be checked periodically and be displaced to make up losses.
Modern homes use vapor barriers and tape to seal it,a different purpose but similar concept.

[budk]

When I bought my car I thought the body was in pretty good condition. I put it in dry storage for 4 years and it has deteriorated much more than I expected.

I have seen websites recommending completely spraying a car with WD-40 but I don't think that would stop any rust that already exists from spreading.

You will find varied opinions one POR-15, many of them negatie so do lot's of research.

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[BeatNavy]

You'll get additional information you can use here. I think what would worry me is the "sitting outside for 5 years" through Virginia winters, the fact that you did a "cursory" examination, and that you may not get to it for a few years. There's going to be more rust than you see - rust is very good at hiding from plain sight on these cars. Really look under the rockers at the longs, pull the carpet up behind the seats, and give it a good look on either end of the firewall.

If you cruise through some of the restoration threads here you'll see where the rust may be hiding and what's involved with restoring it. I'd really recommend checking those out before pulling the trigger. If you're ok with potential major rustoration body work and can store it somewhere dry, then at least you'll be doing more for it than what's happening to it now sitting in the weather.

Don't have much advice in the way of storing it to prevent further damage other than keep it somewhere very dry. There are varying opinions here on POR-15. A lot of it has to do with actual prep and what you're using it for.

Yes, welcome to 914World to another Virginian. Good luck!

[altitude411]

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As already stated POR15 has mixed reviews. Personally I think it's crap. I would use a rust converter such as OSPHO. http://ospho.com followed by epoxy prime and top coat. You sound like a capable guy to be able to handle repairs that might be needed. Almost all of these cars need some love. It's just metal. Time and $ and a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) will fix any of it. Post pictures here of the car and any questions you may run into and these guy's will give you the expert advise. There is some severe talent on this board. Absolutly no need to go anywhere else. The best of the best gather right here. Welcome to the World.

[Big Len]

Answering a question with a question -

Couldn't you simply spray all the rust prone ares with fogging oil? Wouldn't that prevent rusting until remediation can be performed?

[EdwardBlume]

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Why wait? The fun is in driving the car.

This isn't scientific, but get the car running, find a dirt road with the stickiest mud you can find on a rainy day. Drive around a few hours until its caked on everywhere.

All 914s have rust. Period.

The advance of rust depends on your storage.

[76-914]

5 years? Sounds like an investment to me. In which case I would pass. Best bet is to buy a CA, NV or AZ roller. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[Cairo94507]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) Well you have a plan. I agree with spraying it with some kind of oil to stop the rust. The fact my car had oil leaks all over the place is probably what kept it from turning into one big hunk of rust. We still had to deal with rust, but not that much. Good luck.

[alfadoc]

Thanks everybody. I like the point about doing something better for it than what is happening right now. The car would go into my shop, so it's a dry space with a concrete floor.

Investment? It hasn't escaped my attention that air cooled Porsches are going up in value. I wouldn't be able to afford my 911 now. But my attraction to this car is the fact that it's local, one owner, unmolested and cheap. I like that it's L-Jet instead of D-Jet from a familiarity standpoint, I also like the color.

I'll poke around it some more, maybe throw a battery in it and see if it will fire. Maybe the shop that has it will put it up in the air for me and really let me get a look at it.

[ripper911]

perhaps there's a Canadian filter I can apply to my posts here. Cheers!

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That may be the best site improvement that has yet been presented.

[gfg3]

Hey Joel, welcome aboard. It's good to see other Southern VA folks join in the fun - I'm at Smith Mountain Lake, not too far from you.

First a question for you: Does the car run? If so, I'd put the car on a lift and check everything really well from underneath. The usual suspects for serious rust are suspension attachment points, especially under the battery. Also under the fuel tank, engine/trans mounts, etc. You're looking for structural damage.....surface rust should be able to be handled. If there's anything iffy structurally, or if the engine is not running (or gasp frozen) I'd pass.....especially since the car will be sitting for another few years.

If you decide to buy the car, as far as the crusty longs are concerned, I would pull the side skirts off and use a rust encapsulator. I've used POR15 with mixed reviews but there are others. I wouldn't use encapsulator on anything really visible but it should be fine for hidden bits like the longs. I've also used WD-40 on the shiny bits, and that seems to work but in my experience you need to recoat things every year or so.

Don't forget to prep the engine for long term storage too.

George

[Shadowfax]

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[Dave_Darling]

An Italian-car guy asking how to deal with rust? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) I figured you'd already know everything there is to know about rust!!


Anyway--I'd recommend pulling off the rocker covers, or at least doing the unbolt the bottom side and swing it out. You can get a good look at what's going on under there. Treat any surface rust you find with a phosphoric acid product (like Ospho, or Naval Jelly). If you suspect rust is coming up from the inside, I'm less sure how to temporarily deal with it.

Budget some time early on for a partial disassembly and inspection, plus at least some remediation.

Sitting isn't good for our cars. The rubber bits won't like it, the fluids don't like it, you can get corrosion started inside of working bits, and so on.

If you're fine with dealing with any of those once you get back, it could be a really fun project. I like the Malaga Red cars, and even more so with the tan interior. I think it was a one-year-only color, too.

--DD

[SirAndy]

I can pull the outer rockers before the car goes into mothballs, and I can POR-15 the heck out of everything I can see on the surface. Is there any way to get the POR-15 into the structure where inner and outer longs meet without cutting or extensively dismantling?

Don't use POR-15. It doesn't work as advertised, even with careful prep work, it will simply seal the rust behind it but not stop it entirely.


If you have surface rust, remove it or use some sort of actual rust converter on it. If you have have deep rust, cut it out.
Once the rust is removed and the surfaces are sealed you should be OK to store it for several years.
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PS: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[alfadoc]

An Italian-car guy asking how to deal with rust? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) I figured you'd already know everything there is to know about rust!!

+1

[veekry9]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive...article4386760/

The problem of course is that the 914 was never coated internally,other than with dielube.
The subsequent paint prep removed most of that,leaving bare metal exposed.
Wishing the rust will stop won't get it done,a lack of oxygen will.
A vacuum chamber or autoclave is an overkill approach,so I tendered a plausible,cheaper solution.
You have seen a balloon,and know what makes it work,fill it with a welding gas to displace the oxygen.
Helium is way more expensive than CO2,Nitrogen or Argon.
A problem you will face is the permeability of the vessel's material,the evaporated or metallized vinyls are likely suitable.
Stopping or slowing rust? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
Nature is attempting to reduce all of it and will eventually succeed.
A shrinkwrapped 914 can be preserved as long as the gas shield is present,indefinitely.
If you can find a more effective and economical method,let us know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[aharder]

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