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> Biral Cylinders, Worth the difference on a daily driver?
914Sixer
post Nov 14 2015, 12:46 PM
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I am getting going to get ready to put a 2056 FI engine together for a daily driver. Trying to decide if the cost is worth the difference. Biral are supposed to run 20 % cooler. Porsche used them for a couple of years and moved on to coatings.
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TJB/914
post Nov 14 2015, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE(914Sixer @ Nov 14 2015, 01:46 PM) *

I am getting going to get ready to put a 2056 FI engine together for a daily driver. Trying to decide if the cost is worth the difference. Biral are supposed to run 20 % cooler. Porsche used them for a couple of years and moved on to coatings.


Mark,
I'd spend the money & go biral, because you do everything right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
I went with a inexpensive high temp coating like the Harley Davison bikers.
It was less than $100 bucks and they look great and still holding up.
Temps are fine.
Tom


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r_towle
post Nov 14 2015, 04:07 PM
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What do they cost?
What do they cost versus the aluminum ones?
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914Sixer
post Nov 14 2015, 06:29 PM
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Cost difference is about $80 dollars for set or $20 per cylinder. Biral cylinders are cast iron with aluminum fins. Stock cylinders are all cast iron.
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r_towle
post Nov 14 2015, 08:39 PM
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Do it for 80 bucks...no doubt.


Not to go too far off topic here, but how do the aluminum fin set get bonded to the cast iron cylinder ?
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Catorse
post Nov 14 2015, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ Nov 14 2015, 06:39 PM) *

Do it for 80 bucks...no doubt.


Not to go too far off topic here, but how do the aluminum fin set get bonded to the cast iron cylinder ?



The iron cylinder is cast first, and then the aluminum fins are cast around that. Finally, the iron cylinder is machined to spec. When complete, a biral cylinder is a single contiguous unit. It can also be rebored no problem.

They are lighter than iron cylinders obviously, and dissipate heat better.
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r_towle
post Nov 14 2015, 09:08 PM
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No sleeves? No slippage ( like early 3.4 water cooled six) issues?
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914Sixer
post Nov 14 2015, 09:14 PM
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I found a deal on them for $230 for all 4 96mm biral cylinders. So the cost will only be $30 over the cast iron set. No reason not to go for it. Now I can afford the Keith Black pistons and rings.
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PotterPorsche
post Nov 14 2015, 09:22 PM
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We are talking AA Biral cylinders right?



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914Sixer
post Nov 14 2015, 09:28 PM
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Yes, AA birals.
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PotterPorsche
post Nov 14 2015, 09:30 PM
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http://aapistons.com/products/vw-96mm-type...riant=742291987

$227 and there is a discount code for 15% off

That takes it down to $193 dollars
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r_towle
post Nov 14 2015, 09:31 PM
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I have not heard wonderful things about AA cylinders so if this is a more complex manufacturing process I would suggest you work with a vendor that will take returns of singles until you get a set that matches to your specs and satisfaction.

Rich
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Catorse
post Nov 14 2015, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ Nov 14 2015, 07:31 PM) *

I have not heard wonderful things about AA cylinders so if this is a more complex manufacturing process I would suggest you work with a vendor that will take returns of singles until you get a set that matches to your specs and satisfaction.

Rich


I have AA pistons on my 356 motor, 1720 big bore. They seem to be holding up well. Went up there to check out there operation as they are local. Seem to be good people.

There is no slippage on Biral since the aluminum is cast onto the iron sleeve, which has ridges to keep the formed aluminum in place. 356 cylinders were biral from the factory. No problems with this.
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PotterPorsche
post Nov 14 2015, 09:59 PM
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I've used the aa Pistons in a few engines. No problems so far. I have heard that you should get a dial bore gauge and inspect cylinder for roundness. I'm still planning my 96 or 98mm pistons for my 78 stroked engine.
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r_towle
post Nov 15 2015, 11:46 AM
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Good prices at AA.

Does anyone know them?
If so could you ask them about doing Biral 103 mm cylinders?

The head prices are ridiculous, not even worth doing a set of stock heads at those prices.
Good to see this vendor.

Rich
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Mueller
post Nov 15 2015, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ Nov 14 2015, 07:31 PM) *

I have not heard wonderful things about AA cylinders so if this is a more complex manufacturing process I would suggest you work with a vendor that will take returns of singles until you get a set that matches to your specs and satisfaction.

Rich


It has been about 10 years it seems, but I had a set of AA piston and cylinders and one of the cylinder casting had a defect at the top where it mates to the head.

I called them and the next day someone from their SF office stopped by the house and exchanged the cylinder. I'm a good 1 hour East of SF so I am guessing he was heading this direction already.

Point is , I had a problem part and they helped correct it.
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Montreal914
post Nov 15 2015, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE(Catorse @ Nov 14 2015, 07:53 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Nov 14 2015, 07:31 PM) *

I have not heard wonderful things about AA cylinders so if this is a more complex manufacturing process I would suggest you work with a vendor that will take returns of singles until you get a set that matches to your specs and satisfaction.

Rich


I have AA pistons on my 356 motor, 1720 big bore. They seem to be holding up well. Went up there to check out there operation as they are local. Seem to be good people.

There is no slippage on Biral since the aluminum is cast onto the iron sleeve, which has ridges to keep the formed aluminum in place. 356 cylinders were biral from the factory. No problems with this.



So are you saying that they are actually making them here in the LA area?
Can you buy direct from them?
They must have an inspection room where they can do measurement to ensure roundness (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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mr2by4
post Nov 15 2015, 02:15 PM
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QUOTE(r_towle @ Nov 15 2015, 09:46 AM) *

Good prices at AA.

Does anyone know them?
If so could you ask them about doing Biral 103 mm cylinders?

The head prices are ridiculous, not even worth doing a set of stock heads at those prices.
Good to see this vendor.

Rich


Odd that there is no additional cost on the heads to have them relocate the spark plugs to the 2.0 location. How do the economics of that work? It seems like the welding and re-machining would add some cost.
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Mueller
post Nov 15 2015, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE(mr2by4 @ Nov 15 2015, 12:15 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Nov 15 2015, 09:46 AM) *

Good prices at AA.

Does anyone know them?
If so could you ask them about doing Biral 103 mm cylinders?

The head prices are ridiculous, not even worth doing a set of stock heads at those prices.
Good to see this vendor.

Rich


Odd that there is no additional cost on the heads to have them relocate the spark plugs to the 2.0 location. How do the economics of that work? It seems like the welding and re-machining would add some cost.


I don't see that in writing or in the pictures for the "stock" heads.

The $1700 modified heads mention it. I'd venture to say the stock replacement 2.0 heads just have the larger bores for the cylinders and that is all.
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Dave_Darling
post Nov 15 2015, 03:18 PM
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I have heard of earlier low-cost birals having slippage issues. I dont' know if it was AA, though.

I don't think I'd bother for a street-driven 2056, myself. Cast-iron has proven itself for that config over and over again.

--DD
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