914/LS vs 914/6 Options

[messix]

Thanks fella's. I understood "caster" from the get go but was just asking messix to explain his use of terminology. Clear as mud? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Tony

wow clear as mud?

low caster angle.......

high caster angle......

measured in degrees..... you are unable to garner any idea of info from my posts?

i don't think my knowledge and experience in chassis set up and dynamics is that far advanced to confuse most moderately competent shade tree mechanics.

good luck with your car.

[Cracker]

I certainly didn't mean to hurt feelings...thanks for your insight. The "clear as mud" was brought out by "someone else", simply poking fun at me, nothing more - I just returned the favor. Again, nothing nasty intended. Everyone should be good (I hope). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

BTW: My family used to live in University Place growing up - I sure do miss your part of the country! Have a wonderful day Messix!

Tony

Thanks fella's. I understood "caster" from the get go but was just asking messix to explain his use of terminology. Clear as mud? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Tony

wow clear as mud?

low caster angle.......

high caster angle......

measured in degrees..... you are unable to garner any idea of info from my posts?

i don't think my knowledge and experience in chassis set up and dynamics is that far advanced to confuse most moderately competent shade tree mechanics.

good luck with your car.

[jimkelly]

do I have this right for front?

[Cracker]

Just don't max out your "toe-in" (adjusted at tie-rods) - it has to be measured. Your Inward facing arrows will adjust for negative camber. From what I've been told you want anything between 1/8" OUT for AX and zero to 1/8" IN for street and road racing applications. Regarding the caster...you're correct.

Jim: Regarding your radiator problem...for what its worth - I'm using a STEEL radiator in lieu of the aluminum. Very strong and cools just fine. Just a thought...

Tony

do I have this right for front?

[r_towle]

do I have this right for front?

Yes, you have it right.

The key is one side will go less than the other.
You need to match them, so pull one side back to however far you can get the other side.

Move tower, set car on suspension, roll car back and forth about 3 feet, and bounce it up and down, then measure.

It takes a bit of time, but it's all fairly simple.

Rich

[stugray]

Since this racing front suspension oriented thread is getting a lot of attention:

Has anyone ever considered cutting the front A-arms, moving the ball joint mount out by ~1/2" and welding it back together? (with 1/2" spacers of course).

That should give an equivalent of ~1 degree additional camber (negative) and 1 inch additional track.
Then we could pull the camber adjustment a little back from "all the way" and give us a little adjustment to play with for various track setups.

If we wanted to be extreme, we could even make the length of the control arm adjustable as well....

[Dave_Darling]

Lengthening the A-arms is somewhat common in the 911 racing world. They do it with some frequency, since they are as camber-challenged as we are. The preferred solution for them seems to be to go a to 935-style front end, though that requires going with coil-overs, and therefore reinforcing the shock towers and so forth.

--DD

[Cracker]

Dave - I've thought about doing that conversion but have chosen not to at this point. I've seen these cars do very, very well without it. I for one, will wait and see how good or how bad the car performs.

Now I really like the rear conversion (996?) by one of our members...I have my eye on how that develops. Super sweet!

Tony

[Cracker]

UPDATE: So thanks to everyone for your input...I added rear toe as suggested and maxed-out to positive caster. I also loosened the sway bar to max-soft. All of the above
has contributed to a much, much, much more pleasant vehicle. Thanks again!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)


Rich - So you think I need a bigger wing - huh? LOL!

Heading to Roebling today!

Tony

[andys]

Tony,

Looks like you're all set to go. When you say "much more pleasant", did you track it already, or just run it around town?

When I took my 914/LS! to Willow Springs (Streets), I quickly discovered my right rear shock (Koni DA) was blown out. Did only two sessions before deciding what's the use; too unstable on right handers (especially when running CW direction), and packed it up. Got to say that it otherwise behaved very well right out of the box with the suspension settings I used. Tire temp profiles were nearly perfect.

Andys

[Cracker]

Sorry Andy for the late reply...just got to the hotel. My "unpleasant" experience was on public roads as were the testing with the changes. I've been duped before because its impossible to duplicate driving at track limits on the street. However, my biggest gripe was with straight line acceleration stability - I believe I'm good/comfortable. I have no basis for how this car will handle when pushed through the corners. Tomorrow will be quite an eye opener - I hope for the better. I have TWO back up shocks (rear) in the hauler and one brand new on on the RR. I wasn't taking chances blowing the trip over a shock. I'll let you know how it turns out and if I have time to focus on Video - some footage. Thanks for the tips and feedback!

Tony

Tony,

Looks like you're all set to go. When you say "much more pleasant", did you track it already, or just run it around town?

When I took my 914/LS! to Willow Springs (Streets), I quickly discovered my right rear shock (Koni DA) was blown out. Did only two sessions before deciding what's the use; too unstable on right handers (especially when running CW direction), and packed it up. Got to say that it otherwise behaved very well right out of the box with the suspension settings I used. Tire temp profiles were nearly perfect.

Andys

[Cracker]

UPDATE:

Okay. I had a good day. Still running after a full day of tracking (YAY!) - no mechanicals! The car I'm chasing is an ex-IMSA 997 Cup Car (sequential)- AMAZING car actually. It is owned by a former Brumos racing team member - quick car and driver. Anyway, he put 2 seconds a lap on me. This was only my (and the cars) second session...who says a LS 914 is too heavy? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

PS: I hit 154 down the front straight - braking way, way early - I'll fix that!

Tony/Cracker

https://youtu.be/9Te6GScwxek

[andys]

Tony,

Looks like a fun drive! Anything to report on how the car behaved, and the data you recorded (track data sheets)?

Andys

[Andyrew]

Awesome! Looks like the chassis is really stable! In some spots I thought the back might come around it just stayed planted. Good job!

[wndsrfr]

UPDATE:

Okay. I had a good day. Still running after a full day of tracking (YAY!) - no mechanicals! The car I'm chasing is an ex-IMSA 997 Cup Car (sequential)- AMAZING car actually. It is owned by a former Brumos racing team member - quick car and driver. Anyway, he put 2 seconds a lap on me. This was only my (and the cars) second session...who says a LS 914 is too heavy? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

PS: I hit 154 down the front straight - braking way, way early - I'll fix that!

Tony/Cracker

https://youtu.be/9Te6GScwxek *

*The link will be available about 11 PM EST Saturday night - big file! I'm tired and going to bed!

Wow Tony.....sweet driving....what transmission & linkage are you using...nice positive shifts.

[Cracker]

My good buddy, Terry O'Toole (SixAddict)" was also here this weekend. He did a great job piloting his "massaged" 3.0 914 around! Herman (Porter?) - it was also good to see you again! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

Andy - I don't have telemetry...I have "seat of the pants" feedback - low tech I guess. The car felt amazingly stable but once I pushed it a little harder the rear was getting loose. It was occurring too easily though. Today, before the second session, I changed four things (at once), I know that's not suggested but fortunately it worked. We took 1" off the front bar (tighter), lowered the rear by 3/8", lowered tire temps to 25 psi (from 27), and set the rear shocks to full-stiff. This made an amazing difference - totally settled the rear when pushed and stayed that way throughout the entire session.

Andyrew - Thanks. Yes it is very stable.

John/Wndsrfer - Thank you. The trans is an early Boxster S (iirc a 2003) with a Guard LSD and the shifter is made by CAE with motorsports cables. I couldn't imagine an H-pattern shifter/trans being any better (for performance). It took a little time tweaking and adjusting but once we got it dialed in - oh baby! How was Daytona? Video you can share?

BTW: You might have noticed an ignition stumble several times..I am not doing this of course. A flaw in my intake design has the MAF sensor at a convergence point where as it needs to be fed within a 4" tube and with a straight feed 6" prior. We are having to use a speed density tune which isn't perfect. Parts to correct this are on the way but not in time for this weekend. In the future this stumble will (should) a thing of the past. It caused the back end to come around on lap 2 in the video - I just kept my foot in it, steered towards it and pulled the next gear. A little unnerving at times...
Tony

[Justinp71]

Nice Car! Awesome video chasing the GT3