Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

7 Pages V « < 3 4 5 6 7 >  
 Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Header sizing 914-6
mb911
post Jul 8 2016, 02:32 PM
Post #81


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,819
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
What I would need is a set to model off of. Anyone have a pair they want to loan me and I will make a set of heat exchangers for them?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Jul 8 2016, 02:32 PM
Post #82


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,819
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
QUOTE(gereed75 @ Jul 8 2016, 12:13 PM) *

I actually think the idea of a heat plenum that would fit to the existing header choices to be a good idea. As you say, why reinvent the wheel. And all the folks out there with the Bursch headers (I think those are the most common after market ones out there) would have the option of adding heat to there existing headers for way less than an all new set.

I would also suggest looking at a very abbreviated design. My stock set with the "full metal jacket" treatment makes lots of heat.,, more than needed except maybe in the most extreme situations and who among us is out driving their sixes at zero degrees??

The aviation style "heat muffs" are much smaller ( https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ep/car...rsheatmuffs.php ) and the single one in my plane makes a lot of heat. Besides price, the biggest benefit might be that a smaller, well engineered muff would allow for a lot more room to adjust valves. I have not attempted a valve adjustment with the stock HE's in place (is it even possible??) but was able to do one with Bursch headers in place.

What say the masses (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ??


Heat muffs might be a good option.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
gereed75
post Jul 8 2016, 02:58 PM
Post #83


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,241
Joined: 19-March 13
From: Pittsburgh PA
Member No.: 15,674
Region Association: North East States
I have an old set of what I think are Burschs that I would lend out for the cause. I will post some pics and maybe someone could confirm what they are.

I am not a good candidate to beta test the muffs. Got my stock HE's on and they are not coming off any time soon!!

Like I said, one heat muff on the plane makes good heat in a very drafty, un-insulated cockpit. I am sure a left and right in a 914 would be way toasty.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Perry Kiehl Clone
post Jul 8 2016, 11:26 PM
Post #84


Unregistered
I tried to get factory 6 HE's reproduced about 16 years ago. Dansk told me the original factory tooling had been scrapped, and they weren't interested. I even shipped a set of factory 6 boxes round trip Europe.

I looked into modifying 3.2 and 3.0 factory boxes, which I think still might be a viable option, but I just dropped the whole idea and started collecting as many 914-6 exhausts as I could get my hands on (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

From the research I've done on this, I'd suggest the following:

The factory did an excellent job designing the 914-6 exhaust system so, you may want to consider replicating the factory boxes as close as you can. They flow really well and the primaries are close to equal length. This is why you can have a 3.0 or 3.2 with the factory boxes, and it doesn't really feel totally choked. Why reinvent the wheel?

Do not produce a product that has weld seams inside the heat collector shells. You will not find a single factory Porsche heat exchanger with welds in the collector shell, and for good reason.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Jul 9 2016, 05:58 AM
Post #85


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,819
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
Agreed I made hundreds of sets of headers for rarlyl8 with my other business and was bound by there designs. Now I am not. I really think the bigger market is to make heat exchangers for current header options out there.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Perry Kiehl Clone
post Jul 9 2016, 07:53 AM
Post #86


Unregistered
You can't make heat exchangers out of mild steel, there's a high probability that it will cause carbon monoxide poisoning at some point in the future.

All Porsche exhausts since the 70's have stainless alloy tubing and mild steel shells, or all stainless. The newer the car the higher quality stainless to the point where it's all stainless. The reasoning on the boxes with mild steel shells is that they would go bad long before the tubing.

In the early development of the 911 the factory exhaust systems had porosity problems inside the heat collectors that failed and caused carbon monoxide poisoning. Subsequently they changed in how they made those.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Jul 9 2016, 08:07 AM
Post #87


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,819
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
with the 911 market we made the heat exchangers out of aluminum and made them So they can be removed for inspection or replaced from damage. I have an extensive background in in Porsche exhaust ala former owner and designer of m&k exhaust and previous to that I worked in aviation building products for companies like aircraft spruce, the wag aero group, leading edge air foils etc. That said I thinking a removable solution would be attractive to folks that already own headers that work for them.

Ultimatly stainless over stainless preferably 321 would be the best solution to any cracking, porosity issues along with a back purge..

I say we try one set up
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Jul 9 2016, 12:36 PM
Post #88


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,819
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
Another thought I just had as I was looking at my 2.4 on the stand that it has 993 heat exchangers which can be purchased for about 350 a set that they could be a solution. Yes not equal length but a pretty nice design large primaries, excellent heat exchangers , all stainless construction.. By the time you rotate flanges and make extensions total investment of under 1k and very little negatives.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mepstein
post Jul 9 2016, 01:39 PM
Post #89


914-6 GT in waiting
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 19,253
Joined: 19-September 09
From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE
Member No.: 10,825
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
QUOTE(mb911 @ Jul 9 2016, 02:36 PM) *

Another thought I just had as I was looking at my 2.4 on the stand that it has 993 heat exchangers which can be purchased for about 350 a set that they could be a solution. Yes not equal length but a pretty nice design large primaries, excellent heat exchangers , all stainless construction.. By the time you rotate flanges and make extensions total investment of under 1k and very little negatives.

I wonder if I have an extra set in the shop?
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
bahnzai
post Jul 9 2016, 01:52 PM
Post #90


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 305
Joined: 26-July 06
From: Columbia, SC
Member No.: 6,509
Region Association: South East States
Ben,
I have a factory set of 914-6 exhaust I will loan you for the build up. PM me your shipping address and contact info.
Thanks
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Perry Kiehl Clone
post Jul 9 2016, 04:51 PM
Post #91


Unregistered
QUOTE(mb911 @ Jul 9 2016, 10:36 AM) *

Another thought I just had as I was looking at my 2.4 on the stand that it has 993 heat exchangers which can be purchased for about 350 a set that they could be a solution. Yes not equal length but a pretty nice design large primaries, excellent heat exchangers , all stainless construction.. By the time you rotate flanges and make extensions total investment of under 1k and very little negatives.


That's exactly what I thought with the 3.2 style, but I'm sure the 993's are better in terms of performance.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Jul 9 2016, 07:49 PM
Post #92


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,819
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
Way better . This was a common upgrade for 3.2 cars when I owned m&k exhaust. Brian does not do them anymore because he doesn't own those fixtures.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
0396
post Jul 10 2016, 12:19 AM
Post #93


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,046
Joined: 13-October 03
From: L.A. Calif
Member No.: 1,245
Region Association: Southern California
QUOTE(mb911 @ Jul 9 2016, 06:49 PM) *

Way better . This was a common upgrade for 3.2 cars when I owned m&k exhaust. Brian does not do them anymore because he doesn't own those fixtures.


Quick question, if Brian doesn't have the fixtures, who does?
Especially if someone wanted a set done?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Jul 10 2016, 05:18 AM
Post #94


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,819
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
I do.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
JmuRiz
post Jul 10 2016, 06:43 PM
Post #95


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5,424
Joined: 30-December 02
From: NoVA
Member No.: 50
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Interesting about the 3.6 heat exchangers...Scotty said 3.2 are too much work to be worth it on a 914, not sure if he's had a set of 3.6 to play with.

I have a new set of MSDS headers if you need a set to fab HE prototypes.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Aug 21 2016, 02:22 PM
Post #96


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,819
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
Quick update as I work one the Gt steel rocker flares I am having a friend start drawings and fixtures for the header and heat exchangers based off of the original ones but going 1-5/8" instead. Heat exchangers will be similar to stock as far as shape but will be fabricated.. Once we have a sample to show people we will start a group buy..
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Eric_Shea
post Aug 21 2016, 04:05 PM
Post #97


PMB Performance
***************

Group: Admin
Posts: 19,274
Joined: 3-September 03
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Member No.: 1,110
Region Association: Rocky Mountains
(2) Pair please. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
restore2seater
post Aug 21 2016, 06:08 PM
Post #98


Future 914 copilot.
**

Group: Members
Posts: 311
Joined: 30-October 04
From: Dunlap,IL
Member No.: 3,037
Region Association: None
Any estimate on GB cost?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
raynekat
post Aug 22 2016, 12:36 AM
Post #99


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,154
Joined: 30-December 14
From: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Member No.: 18,263
Region Association: Pacific Northwest
I'm interested in a set of 1-5/8" heat exchangers for sure.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Aug 22 2016, 05:36 AM
Post #100


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,819
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest
Target for group buy is 1500.. I will firm this up this week..
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
« Next Oldest · 914World Garage · Next Newest »
 

7 Pages V « < 3 4 5 6 7 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Display Mode: Standard · Switch to: Linear+ · Switch to: Outline

Track this topic · Email this topic · Print this topic · Subscribe to this forum

- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 2nd May 2024 - 06:37 PM
Invision Power Board v9.1.4 © 2024  IPS, Inc.
All rights reserved 914World.com © since 2002
914World.com is the fastest growing online 914 community!
We have it all, classifieds, events, forums, vendors, parts, autocross, racing, technical articles, events calendar, newsletter, restoration, gallery, archives, history and more for your Porsche 914 ...