Making Your Flasher Relay LED Compatible Options

[Spoke]

This is helpful. Changed the lamp for the m/c dash indicator and with e-brake on both turn signal dash indicators flash crazy. Ordered a modified EP26 relay from Spoke and will see what that does to help. If it does not fix the problem then I'll put a higher wattage lamp in the dash indicator.

What did you change the m/c dash indicator to? LED or other incandescent bulb? The OEM flasher was designed to flash normally with very little current to flash the m/c indicator with a 1 sec flash rate. Thus the OEM flasher doesn't hyperflash when LED turnsignals are installed. With the light m/c indicator current, the turnsignal dash indicators shouldn't flash.

In comparison, the 911 OEM flasher hyperflashes when one front or rear turnsignal is changed to LED. There's no debate that if the exterior turnsignals are converted to LEDs, the flasher must be changed to EP26.

EP26 will solve your turnsignal dash indicator issues. They will work normally although you'll find that after installing EP26, the L indicator will flash with the right turnsignals and the R indicator with the right turnsignals. To fix, simply pop the tach out and pull both indicator sockets out and swap positions.

[FourBlades]

I finally applied the jumper fix described by Spoke on my blue 1973.

It fixed the annoying problem of no turn signal indicator lights on my tach!

Hazard flashers also indicated now too.

Very easy to perform. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

I love the LED headlights and taillights, Spoke, they are awesome.

Feel more comfortable driving my car with so much brighter signal lights.

John

[Robarabian]

Second nomination for Classic Thread.

[barefoot]

Here is Spoky's mod for the late single dash indicator
Works just fine & simple to do:

https://www.spokeworksled.com/ep26-mod-single-indicator

[Gatornapper]

Spoke -

All LED's in my '76 914 and all are working well.

NOT SO in my '87 944 S. Have all LEDs in the car. Have tried ALL models of Novita LED Flashers. None correct this.

Two problems:

1. Rear flashers work fine. Front flashers work fine - UNLESS HEADLIGHTS ARE TURNED ON. When headlights turn on (or parking lights), front LEDs SEEM to not flash. The rear ones flash fine.

While the brightness of the running light LED and signal LED are very different, there seems to be no flash when the 12v goes from the running light LED to the signal LED - but if you look closely, there is a difference - but it's barely perceptible. SuperbrightLEDs has not been able to fix problem nor have I.

Any ideas?

Also, problem #2 is now my non-LED turn signal indicators in the dash are so dim I cannot see them at all. If you addressed this earlier in this thread, please just point me to the post.

TIA,

GN

This is helpful. Changed the lamp for the m/c dash indicator and with e-brake on both turn signal dash indicators flash crazy. Ordered a modified EP26 relay from Spoke and will see what that does to help. If it does not fix the problem then I'll put a higher wattage lamp in the dash indicator.

What did you change the m/c dash indicator to? LED or other incandescent bulb? The OEM flasher was designed to flash normally with very little current to flash the m/c indicator with a 1 sec flash rate. Thus the OEM flasher doesn't hyperflash when LED turnsignals are installed. With the light m/c indicator current, the turnsignal dash indicators shouldn't flash.

In comparison, the 911 OEM flasher hyperflashes when one front or rear turnsignal is changed to LED. There's no debate that if the exterior turnsignals are converted to LEDs, the flasher must be changed to EP26.

EP26 will solve your turnsignal dash indicator issues. They will work normally although you'll find that after installing EP26, the L indicator will flash with the right turnsignals and the R indicator with the right turnsignals. To fix, simply pop the tach out and pull both indicator sockets out and swap positions.

[Geezer914]

Converted the EP26 flasher. Turn signals work fine. Why does the turn signal indicator flash when the emergency brake is applied? This is on my 75 914.

[VaccaRabite]

Moved this thread to the Classics forum

[Red76]

This link to show Spoke’s easy mod works. I just did it on my 76 with the single indicator in the tach.
A couple of helpful hints if you’re planning on doing this.
1) use 22ga wire as its more flexible. Only needs about 1-11/2 inch piece.
2) the relay I used cam from my local flaps and the solder on the terminals was lead free.
I used a desoldering pump to remove the manufacturer solder and redid mine with rosin core lead/tin solder. Why you ask? The lead free melts at a much higher temp and doesn’t flow that well. Old style Pb/Sn rosin core flows much easier (less aggravating)

That’s all I got.
Enjoy!


https://www.spokeworksled.com/ep26-mod-single-indicator

[GregAmy]

All LED's in my '76 914 and all are working well.

NOT SO in my '87 944 S.

@Gatornapper, you made me go check: similar in my 968. Superbright LEDs and Novita EP35 flasher.

All is fine with parking lights off. But click on the parking lights and/or headlights and the rear turn signals (and dash) will flash but the fronts won't, they just illuminate the second filament.

I put the incandescent 1157s back in the front positions only, and it all works fine.

Note that the front turn signals are 1157 bulbs, dual element, whereas the rears are 1156, single element. The 1157s use a common ground for parking and turn signal...these chassis use of the 111 ur-Beetle 3-pin flasher relays and does something inside to illuminate the single turn-signal indicator in the dash. I suspect that turning on the parking lights does something funky to the ground, voltage, and/or current/load path. I've not traced down the wiring to get a solid read on it.

My next attempt is to put one of the load resistor packs on each front turn signal circuit ONLY, see what happens.

Seems like a lot of trouble? Sure. But I prefer the way LED turn signal and brake lights "pop!", which seems to catch the eye of inattentive drivers...it works well with the "never saw ya" 914. - GA

[rfinegan]

Watching...my 75 is now flashing with the parking brake too, did not have this issue in the past prior to the swap...any ideas?

Converted the EP26 flasher. Turn signals work fine. Why does the turn signal indicator flash when the emergency brake is applied? This is on my 75 914.

[Spoke]

Watching...my 75 is now flashing with the parking brake too, did not have this issue in the past prior to the swap...any ideas?

Converted the EP26 flasher. Turn signals work fine. Why does the turn signal indicator flash when the emergency brake is applied? This is on my 75 914.

The OEM flasher relay in the '74-'76 914s serves a dual purpose:

1) Flash at normal speed for turnsignals with tach indicator flashing
2) Flash at normal speed for e-brake and MC warning switch w/o tach indicator flashing.

The OEM flasher relay does not hyperflash (2x normal rate) if a turnsignal bulb is burned out like 99.99% of vehicles made. To alert the driver that a turnsignal bulb is burned out the flasher does not flash the single L/R tach indicator. Porsche achieved this by adding a 2nd relay and coil to the flasher. If the flash load is 2+ bulbs, the L/R indicator flashes. If the flash load is 1 bulb, the L/R indicator does not flash.

This characteristic allowed Porsche to dual use the flasher relay for the e-brake and MC warning switch on.

Unfortunately when switching to LED turnsignals the OEM flasher relay will never pull in the 2nd relay and the L/R indicator will be inoperative all the time.

In EP26, the K/C2 pin driving the L/R indicator is connected to 49a which is the flasher output. If the turnsignals are on, or the e-brake, or the MC warning light, the L/R indicator will flash.

Since LED turnsignals draw such little current, it is virtually impossible to discern the difference between the LED current and the brake warning light current. About the only way to resolve this is to install a 2nd flasher relay just for the e-brake/MC switch or rewire the e-brake/MC switch lamp to go straight to 12V and just come on full when active.

[rfinegan]

Thanks Spoke...good write up

[Gatornapper]

Greg - sorry I just caught this.

We think alike.

Actually discovered that the LEDs in front the brighter LED DOES FLASH with signal on, running light LED remains on, and the brightness difference is minimal so effect is you do not see the signal flash - tho it is indeed flashing.

See no solution to that unless someone develops an 1157 type LED where the flasher LED is significantly brighter than the running light LED.

GN

All LED's in my '76 914 and all are working well.

NOT SO in my '87 944 S.

@Gatornapper, you made me go check: similar in my 968. Superbright LEDs and Novita EP35 flasher.

All is fine with parking lights off. But click on the parking lights and/or headlights and the rear turn signals (and dash) will flash but the fronts won't, they just illuminate the second filament.

I put the incandescent 1157s back in the front positions only, and it all works fine.

Note that the front turn signals are 1157 bulbs, dual element, whereas the rears are 1156, single element. The 1157s use a common ground for parking and turn signal...these chassis use of the 111 ur-Beetle 3-pin flasher relays and does something inside to illuminate the single turn-signal indicator in the dash. I suspect that turning on the parking lights does something funky to the ground, voltage, and/or current/load path. I've not traced down the wiring to get a solid read on it.

My next attempt is to put one of the load resistor packs on each front turn signal circuit ONLY, see what happens.

Seems like a lot of trouble? Sure. But I prefer the way LED turn signal and brake lights "pop!", which seems to catch the eye of inattentive drivers...it works well with the "never saw ya" 914. - GA

[Gatornapper]

MY BAD! All works fine on my 914.

It's my 944 S that has the problem I described....

GN

All LED's in my '76 914 and all are working well.

NOT SO in my '87 944 S.

@Gatornapper, you made me go check: similar in my 968. Superbright LEDs and Novita EP35 flasher.

All is fine with parking lights off. But click on the parking lights and/or headlights and the rear turn signals (and dash) will flash but the fronts won't, they just illuminate the second filament.

I put the incandescent 1157s back in the front positions only, and it all works fine.

Note that the front turn signals are 1157 bulbs, dual element, whereas the rears are 1156, single element. The 1157s use a common ground for parking and turn signal...these chassis use of the 111 ur-Beetle 3-pin flasher relays and does something inside to illuminate the single turn-signal indicator in the dash. I suspect that turning on the parking lights does something funky to the ground, voltage, and/or current/load path. I've not traced down the wiring to get a solid read on it.

My next attempt is to put one of the load resistor packs on each front turn signal circuit ONLY, see what happens.

Seems like a lot of trouble? Sure. But I prefer the way LED turn signal and brake lights "pop!", which seems to catch the eye of inattentive drivers...it works well with the "never saw ya" 914. - GA

[GregAmy]

Actually discovered that the LEDs in front the brighter LED DOES FLASH with signal on, running light LED remains on, and the brightness difference is minimal so effect is you do not see the signal flash - tho it is indeed flashing.

See no solution to that unless someone develops an 1157 type LED where the flasher LED is significantly brighter than the running light LED.

A 968 update.

I bought set of these to try on the front flashers:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GQ91JFH

Despite the photo, there are resistor on both the parking and turn signal circuits.

Seems to work fine except, as expected, the running lights resistor gets DAMNED hot, and quickly. So I bypassed (cut out) the resistor from the running light circuit and it works perfect...EXCEPT...When I went to final install it I found that the secondary bulb holder with that kit will not insert into the 968 lamp housing, it's a different configuration. So it's back to incendescent bulbs up front for now.

And then when I was testing, I noticed that the rear turn signal LEDs were working fine except that the parking light circuit was also being momentarily and faintly lighted with the turn signals.

Looks like I'll either use incandescent bulbs in the turn signal positions or manually install those four resistors into the factory wiring circuit.

GA