Ignition System: Cranking very well but won't start 75 1.8FI, Fixed: Major concern Ignitor and #3 fuel injector. :THANKS TIM! Options

[timothy_nd28]

Remove all wires on the negative terminal of the ignition coil except that green wire. Try the test again

[ndfrigi]

Remove all wires on the negative terminal of the ignition coil except that green wire. Try the test again

Green wire only from points/condenser connected to the Negative of coil. test same result.

Just to clarrify, is the test light flash means, total ON and OFF? When engine cranking, test light is ON at all times with just a little dimming (i assumed it dims a little bit just because the battery is not charging). And on 5th gear and pushing the car, the light is full ON not even dimming.

[timothy_nd28]

With the voltmeter, attach one meter lead to the circled area in the picture. Take the other meter lead and connect it to the positive battery post. Set the meter for DC, and make sure the points are open, like you have it in the picture. You should have 0 volts DC,

[ndfrigi]

With the voltmeter, attach one meter lead to the circled area in the picture. Take the other meter lead and connect it to the positive battery post. Set the meter for DC, and make sure the points are open, like you have it in the picture. You should have 0 volts DC,

it has around 12 volts both Open and close at the contact point and that is ignition OFF. I did checked that circled you showed and with battery post has a continuity also.

[timothy_nd28]

K, unplug the green wire at the negative terminal on ignition coil. Redo the test with the wire off.

[ndfrigi]

K, unplug the green wire at the negative terminal on ignition coil. Redo the test with the wire off.

same Tim with 12 volts

[Rand]

An aside...
I get all the comments about using a timing light to check for spark, but it's so simple to test spark without any special tools. Just pull a plug wire, stick a spare plug into it, ground the threads to the engine, and watch the spark color on the plug while cranking. (If you don't have a buddy to help, pick up a remote momentary switch - super cheap at HF or parts house - a push button with leads and alligator clips.)

Sometimes there's more than just knowing IF there is spark... You need to look at the characteristics of the spark (color). It should be a nice blueish white arc that makes you want to flinch as it snaps, vs a weak yellow color. (Which is what you get if that braided ground strap between the dizzy plates isn't doing it's job right, or if there's another weakness in the ignition.)

[timothy_nd28]

Just to make sure, you have a meter lead on the positive battery post, and you have the other meter lead in the red circle of that picture, and you are measuring 12vdc (with the points open)?

You then re performed the test with the green wire pulled off the negative terminal of the ignition coil, and you still read 12volts?

Try this, same test, but remove the condenser coil, make sure it doesn't touch anything and measure again as described.

Something is shorted out, it should be a open circuit. We just need to narrow it down (almost there) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Rand]

Just to make sure, you have a meter lead on the positive battery post, and you have the other meter lead in the red circle of that picture, and you are measuring 12vdc (with the points open)?

You then re performed the test with the green wire pulled off the negative terminal of the ignition coil, and you still read 12volts?

Try this, same test, but remove the condenser coil, make sure it doesn't touch anything and measure again as described.

Something is shorted out, it should be a open circuit. We just need to narrow it down (almost there) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Or you can check spark? Not eveyone gets meter post 12v lobes, red circles....
Just please check your spark so simply as I suggested? This is not rocket science. But it is upon you to report back on results. Please do.

[ndfrigi]

Just to make sure, you have a meter lead on the positive battery post, and you have the other meter lead in the red circle of that picture, and you are measuring 12vdc (with the points open)?

You then re performed the test with the green wire pulled off the negative terminal of the ignition coil, and you still read 12volts?

Try this, same test, but remove the condenser coil, make sure it doesn't touch anything and measure again as described.

Something is shorted out, it should be a open circuit. We just need to narrow it down (almost there) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Or you can check spark? Not eveyone gets meter post 12v lobes, red circles....
Just please check your spark so simply as I suggested? This is not rocket science. But it is upon you to report back on results. Please do.

Hi Rand, thanks also for your help! I do used manual starter switch while doing various testing. We did several testing already to get spark. Only the spark I can get is from the center coil plug wire but not from the spark plug wires.

[ndfrigi]

Just to make sure, you have a meter lead on the positive battery post, and you have the other meter lead in the red circle of that picture, and you are measuring 12vdc (with the points open)? Reply: Yes Tim

You then re performed the test with the green wire pulled off the negative terminal of the ignition coil, and you still read 12volts? Reply: Yes here too

Try this, same test, but remove the condenser coil, make sure it doesn't touch anything and measure again as described. Reply: I will check on this tomorrow afternoon (sunday). And to confirm, i will unplug the condenser from the contact point then re-test again by attaching the meter lead to the contact point wire and the other meter wire to the + battery post.

Something is shorted out, it should be a open circuit. We just need to narrow it down (almost there) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Reply: Yes Tim it looks something is shorted (I believed it is just one wire is the culprit. Hope we can trace that.

Please check all replies above in BOLD letters.
To refreshed what had happened when the car died. Heading home from Cars and Coffee last February and less than 3 miles to home. At stop light, the rpm was bouncing between 2,500 and 3,000 but the actual idle is normal (not really revving around 2,500 rpm). And on green light, just about to move, the engine died. And since then, I can only get the engine crank but does not make it run even up to this point after several test and swapping parts.

[Rand]

Hi Rand, thanks also for your help! I do used manual starter switch while doing various testing. We did several testing already to get spark. Only the spark I can get is from the center coil plug wire but not from the spark plug wires.

Surely this is useful to the other experts. Don't you think this narrows the whole complicated thread down to a simple thing? Dizzy to plugs is not hard to follow. Somebody swap a dizzy for our friend and nip this. It's not rocket science.

[ClayPerrine]

If you are getting spark at the coil wire but not at the plugs, either the button in the middle of the distributor is broken off, or the rotor has burned through and is grounding to the distributor shaft.

Put a cap and rotor on it and try it again.

[timothy_nd28]

There is a 3rd option not listed. He mentioned in post 43 that he was only getting spark if he manually grounded the negative terminal of the ignition coil and only getting spark from the the HT lead off the ignition coil.
I was trying to chase down a problem with why the points are continuously in a grounded state, which will not allow the ignition coil to fire.

[ndfrigi]

Update:
Last night, Tim gave me his phone number and we started exchanging text messages to make the process more faster.

Well, after several test and different approached. This afternoon, Tim and I able to figure out that the New Contact Point is defective. This contact point has a resistance on both points even it is wide open. Wow this new defective points had given us especially Tim a headache why the Meter test we are doing does not make sense.
So, we decided to call it a day until I able to buy another new contact points. While preparing to remove all the tools and close the garage, I realized if the 1.7 core engine I have in my backyard has a contact point just to make comparison with it. Well the contact points from the core engine looks okay and no resistance on the points when it is open. I told Tim that i will install the used point and test the spark plug wire for a spark using timing light. When doing the first spark plug test on spark, I was at the side of the car while using the manual starter, the engine almost about to rev/run but the battery need to be charge. So after few minutes of charging the battery, I tried starting the engine, The RESULT: engine did run but wants to have a high rpm to have a good running engine and if I remove my foot on the accelerator, the engine will have a very rough idle and then dies. The used contact point seems cannot make the gap to exactly .4. the filler gauge does rub too much in between points. Tomorrow I will buy another contact point and update you guys tomorrow if the engine will do improve the idle and if I should need to adjust the timing now that I am using points instead of ignitor that I have before.

Thanks again to Tim, Clay, Joeproper, Mark and to all the other members who did share their knowledge and patience following this thread. I forgot to mentioned, thanks also to Abe and Bob who lend me their Ljet parts for me to use during the diagnosing which part has to be replaced. If not with those parts, maybe I have bought so much used Ljet parts like resister, dual relay, ECU, thermo time switch and cold start valve. That is what a 914world member is! Supportive and helpfull in many way!

God Bless!

[ndfrigi]

Update Sept. 19, 2016
Installed new points but idle still rough on low rpm. I was thinking maybe the condenser went bad when I was using a new points that is defective. Since I was not able to buy new condenser along with the points (Autozone does not have available condenser when I got the points), I installed a used ignitor (not the original ignitor when the car died), still same rough idle. Tim and I had a several text messages for guiding me on a step by step in checking different items.
Well, after several test run and wire test. We noticed that when we removed the fuel injector plug wires, One at a time, #1, #2 and #4 will make the idle lower and engine will die but when we removed #3 injector wire plug, there is no change in idle. So, I did replace #3 fuel injector from my borrowed FI parts (Thanks Abe and Bob for your FI parts you lend me for my swap testing of parts), and my idle is back to normal.

Moral lesson with my experienced on this Ignition issue:
1. Make sure to double check the part(s) you are using is working when replacing specific part. The new points I was using since the beginning of this thread was defective. Doing several test when in fact the initial parts replaced was not working.
2. New Timing Light: well after several test using this timing light since it was suggested that I should have one to make the test easier. Well sad, the new timing light is also defective. Good Pepboys replaced it yesterday and when I used the new timing light, I was able to verify the sparks from all spark plug wires and it makes the job easier.

Thank you again to all who shared their ideas and knowledge, especially to Tim who really spent a lot of time here and ended up using our phone to make the communication easier and faster. Sending pictures and video to Tim makes the job easier too!

[malcolm2]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

Tim is not one to give up. I think he worked with me 'til 2am one time. Keep up the good work Tim. On to the next one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)

[timothy_nd28]

Another LJet up and running, back on the street where it belongs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Even new replacement parts can't be trusted which is why due diligence is needed when troubleshooting any system. Of course none of this is "rocket science" just replacing parts because it makes you feel better is like a Virologist predicting the correct seasonal flu vaccine.

I'm glad that I kept you from replacing the whole distributor merely because your new mechanical ignition points where shorted (which was a freak of nature all in itself). The shame in all of this is that we had to take our conversation off line because it seemed to be annoying to some.
There seems to be a lack of troubleshooting procedures for the Ljet systems on this forum. Every successful diagnosis is valuable for future peeps searching and trying to find how to fix their own car vs hiring their local mechanic.
I have received many personal PM's from members thanking me for fixing their Ljet 914s, even though I have never spoken with any of them. They say it was all thanks to the old threads they had found through the search feature.
I would never berate other rocket scientist from chiming in with their insight when collectively trying to solve a problem, I would only expect the same courtesy in return.

Carry on with the plan of the day

[ThePaintedMan]

Haven't really check in here, but the result is the same as it usually is: TIM IS A GREAT GUY! And smart as hell to boot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Glad the OP got the issue resolved. Congrats!