Too Much End Play, Installing new clutch Options

[jack20]

Hello,
As part of my winter (soon to be spring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) ) I wanted to replace the clutch. I had the flywheel resurfaced, 1st time ever, and although it's not a new flywheel I thought I should check the end play.

I removed the main seal, and o-ring then mounted the flywheel. Using the old washer, I installed 3 bolts and torqued them to 50ft/lbs. My dial indicator measured .006 one thousands end play.

I've read on here that .004 is optimal plus or minus .001. Given the originality of the car, I'm confident that the shims are what came from the factory.

Am I on the right track in thinking that I can shim my way to the proper end play? I understand that 3 shims is the limit so if I'm correct, I'll need to measure the shims I have and then look for thicker replacement? Hope this makes sense. I'm learning something new every day.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jack

[TheCabinetmaker]

It's been a few months, but I think it's 3-5 thousands.

[Mikey914]

A washer under the pivot ball mount Should do it.

[jack20]

More info please...
Mark I don't know what pivot ball means.
I'm a total rookie.

[jack20]

Not sure what a "pivot ball" is.
Could really use a bit of help on this.
Thanks,
Jack

[pilothyer]

By all means disregard the pivot ball shim information in dealing with the crankshaft end play. You need to find the correct shim thickness so that you will use three shims to achieve the correct end play. If you are at .006 with all three shims you need to remove one of the shims and replace it with one that is about .003 thicker. Try to obtain between .003 and .004 end play.

Since you have had your flywheel cut you will probably need to add an additional washer under the pivot ball (the ball the clutch fork pivots on) this will correct the geometry of the clutch fork. Do this before you reattach the transaxle or you will have to remove it later after you find you need a bit more clutch movement. Also be sure to seal the threads on the pivot ball after you remove it and add the extra washer. The hole for the pivot ball stud goes all the way to oil.

[jcd914]

The pivot ball Mark is referencing is for the clutch fork.
It has nothing to do with the crankshaft end play.
But since you had the flywheel machined you will need to shim the clutch fork pivoy ball to get the proper travel on the clutch throw out arm.

As for the Crankshaft End Play:
You have it right, you have to have 3 shims, no mpre or less.
Measure them and replace 1 or more to come up with a set of 3 that bring your end play down to spec. If any of them are worn badly or curved replace them. Always remeasure before you put in the seal.

I don't know the spec off hand but there is a recent thread that has .004 as the spec and that was what you already had.

Jim

[porschetub]

Hello,
As part of my winter (soon to be spring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) ) I wanted to replace the clutch. I had the flywheel resurfaced, 1st time ever, and although it's not a new flywheel I thought I should check the end play.

I removed the main seal, and o-ring then mounted the flywheel. Using the old washer, I installed 3 bolts and torqued them to 50ft/lbs. My dial indicator measured .006 one thousands end play.

I've read on here that .004 is optimal plus or minus .001. Given the originality of the car, I'm confident that the shims are what came from the factory.

Am I on the right track in thinking that I can shim my way to the proper end play? I understand that 3 shims is the limit so if I'm correct, I'll need to measure the shims I have and then look for thicker replacement? Hope this makes sense. I'm learning something new every day.

Thanks in advance for your help.

why 3 bolts and why not torque it up as it should be,sorry don't understand,you could pinch up 1 thou buy torqueing it up as normal .
What end float did you have previously?

Jack

[Mark Henry]

Jim about has it, the spec is .003 to .006, so you are still within spec. I'd still try to close the tolerance if you can.

As the flywheel is reground you can gain a bit of extra life by using a washer, but be careful as you don't want to be a gorilla and over torque the pivot. Stripping the threads would be bad news and the case pivot thread doesn't have a whole lot of support in this area. Best is to clean the threads with acetone and use a dab of loctite, then only install the pivot with about 5 lbs of torque.

Also inspect the clutch disc to make sure it's not hitting the flywheel bolts. The old 4 spring discs have very little clearance, the 6 spring disc has more clearance, but can still hit. You can grind the ridges off of bolts to gain clearance.

[DRPHIL914]

like mark henry stated, you are right on the edge of being within spec, you should change out one of those rings and bring it in spec, mine was just out when I checked it as I was doing the same as you are now, only I put in a brand new flywheel. My Porsche mechanic came by(lives in same neighborhood) and double checked it. said not to even drive it to shop with it out of spec, he ordered new ones from Fat Performance in CA, we remounted and rechecked it, back in spec and then put it all back together. they are kind of pricy. he ordered a pack of them and I think I paid about $200 for them. I kept them all because when we go to pull it this summer to rebuild it will have to go back thru it again, and if I put in a new 9550 cam and change it all out for a 2056 I probably wont need shims that thick anymore. that's my guess anyway, but ive been driving it like this for almost 2 years now. no more RMS leak, clutch is like brand new, and if I were not buring oil due to the 150k miles on that motor I would not mess with it, but I atleast need to do the top end, so probably will get into the whole,"while I am at it" scenario!!
Good luck, get your shims and recheck it. I got a brand new flywheel for almost as cheap as having one resurfaced, so I didn't have the issue with the other stuff. You might want to consider just getting a new one.

Phil

[TheCabinetmaker]

Phil, building a 2056 with raby cam will not affect crank end play. You'll still need the shim stack. It will be different because of the new crank bearings.

[DRPHIL914]

Phil, building a 2056 with raby cam will not affect crank end play. You'll still need the shim stack. It will be different because of the new crank bearings.

right, and I know that, just stated it in a confusing way, I was just saying while we rebuild we will have new stuff and as a result , be rechecking all that - may use same crank, new bearings etc. - but thanks for clearing up any confusion I have caused our new member-

[jack20]

I really appreciate all the help. Later this morning I'll pull the flywheel and measure the stack to see what I need to add .003. There a VW repair shop not far away. Hopefully I can buy a shim there. If not I'll post a WTB. I'd like to avoid buying a whole pack of shims for $200 as mentioned by Phi. (How nice to have a Porsche mechanic living down the street) fortunately this site is the next best thing.

Thanks also for the info on adding a washer under the pivot ball. I hadn't considered that. I'm also replacing the throwout bearing so that will be easy to do.
Jack

[jsaum]

Also make sure when you have the correct shims and end play seat and are ready to do the final torque on the fly wheel bolts that you use a new washer.

[jack20]

Yes. Thanks. Will do.

[jack20]

Hello,
As part of my winter (soon to be spring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) ) I wanted to replace the clutch. I had the flywheel resurfaced, 1st time ever, and although it's not a new flywheel I thought I should check the end play.

I removed the main seal, and o-ring then mounted the flywheel. Using the old washer, I installed 3 bolts and torqued them to 50ft/lbs. My dial indicator measured .006 one thousands end play.

I've read on here that .004 is optimal plus or minus .001. Given the originality of the car, I'm confident that the shims are what came from the factory.

Am I on the right track in thinking that I can shim my way to the proper end play? I understand that 3 shims is the limit so if I'm correct, I'll need to measure the shims I have and then look for thicker replacement? Hope this makes sense. I'm learning something new every day.

Thanks in advance for your help.

why 3 bolts and why not torque it up as it should be,sorry don't understand,you could pinch up 1 thou buy torqueing it up as normal .
What end float did you have previously?

Jack

Sorry, I didn't see your question until just now. I don't know what it was before I started this. Since I wasn't replacing the flywheel I didn't think I needed to be concerned about end play. I checked it out of curiosity and was surprised. I'll take your suggestion and put in all the bolts and torque to 80ft/lbs before I start looking for a thicker shim.
Thanks,
Jack

[Series9]

Given that you're at .006 with three partly-torqued bolts (should be 80 ft/lb), I would say that you're over thinking it.

Put it together and torque all the bolts fully. I bet you'll be in spec.

[jack20]

I just did exactly that and got to a hair over .005. Should I still try to take out some play considering future wear?

[TheCabinetmaker]

Your at spec. Go for it. Light coat of oil on the shims too.

[Series9]

Your at spec. Go for it. Light coat of oil on the shims too.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Let it go. It's a T4, not an F1.

Like valves, a *little* looser is better.