To buy or not? '76 2.2L nice, Opinions please! Options

[yarin]

I went to look at 1976 914 a few hours away from me in NY. I had a very good first impression. The interior is great, VERY little visible rust in the trunk and corners. The car was repainted the original color some time ago, it has a few chips here and there. The current owner bought it 2 years ago and didn't really do anything to it. The guy before that lived in Maryland and supposedly didn't do anythign to the car either. Which brings me to the point of concern:

HERE are all the PICS!!!

(IMG:http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~yarin/Picts/914-bing/DSCN7096.jpg)

Someone, some time ago bored the engine to 2.2L according to the current owner. They also installed a cheater front oil cooler with rubber lines running under the car. A nice FRAM oil filter to go along with it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

(IMG:http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~yarin/Picts/914-bing/DSCN7122.jpg)

The guy took me for a nice ride around, thing is damn loud when the pedal is down. Car has Weber 40 IDAs according to him, 4 to 1 headers and some exhaust. Car was making so much damn noise but not actually going anywhere. Then I drove it around for about 10 minutes. First off the transmission required some serious muscle to get into 1st gear, good thing in my book. I was amazed though... absolutely NO grinding in any gear. You can slip it into first gear while moving 5mph. I was amazed. But then I put my foot to the floor..... lots of noise... barely any pull.

Don't get me wrong, i didn't expect this thing to be fast. But I did drive a relatively stock FI 2.0 last week and this thing was a dog in comparison. The Webers belched up once in a while and the exhaust popped a bunch goign downhill off the gas. All normal as far as i know.

These are my guesses about the extreme lack of power:
Webers need tuning
valves need adjusting(they might tap a little, i'm no expert)
valves leak.. however there is no blow by, car doesn't burn any oil at all, no smoke, no nothing
maybe the compression rings are bad and the oil ring is good?? help!

The previous owner instructed the guy to use 87 octane fuel, said it doesn't need anything more. So this means the engine was built for low compression. But why is it so damn slow?

The suspension seems very tight I was pleased. The rears have white KYB adjust somethign or other. Rear shock tower brace. The fronts have some sort of upper camber plates... correct me if i'm wrong. Couldn't tell what springs, i'm assuming stock t-bars. Either way, pushing down on all corners resulted in a stiff feeling. BUT the offset on the wheels is way off, look at the rears... they rub the fenders hardcore. The rubbing caused the fender to heat up so there are marks on the ouside of the fender on both sides.

(IMG:http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~yarin/Picts/914-bing/DSCN7126.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~yarin/Picts/914-bing/DSCN7132.jpg)

LAstly... when the car was up on the lift I spun one rear tire... all is fine and dandy EXCEPT the other tire spun in the SAME direction! So this car has some sort of limited slip diff?? So overall the transmission and chassis seem to be the strong points of this car.

The mechanic in the shop didn't have time to do a compression/leakdown test so I told the guy I might send him $50 to get it done. This might shed some light on the engine situation.

Please browse through all the pics, let me know what you think... all comments are welcome. Nobody steal my car just yet... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) Guy wants $5900. He think he overpaid for it 2 years ago. What's the general opinion so far?

[Bleyseng]

Paint looks good in the pics
No heat exchangers,hmmm probably the orginals rusted out and the header was cheap
Some rust showing under the passenger pans, how bad is it.
Oil cooler is butchered in with rubber hoses and all that crap plus a Fram filter
2.2L with no power? What did they use old 98mm pistons and really low compression like a bus? What are the heads? 3 intake studs so they are 2.0L or 4 studs so they are 1.8 or 2.0l bus?
Carbs are loud that why I hate them unless its a six. This is a minus in my book, no FI.

To me is an ok car, in Seattle about $4000




Geoff

[Andyrew]

That really looks like a nice car! I'd say buy it! Maybe talk him down because it feels doggy.. I dono. Looks to me like a very rust free car. I would run it with 91 (or whatever your highest is) on the occasion, despite what the previous owner said. I dono, just looks nice to me. If I had the money I would get it...

[ChrisReale]

Oil Cooler is a joke. Hack job at best. Wheels are not the most sought after. KYB's suck. No FI, to me that is not a positive. If its a 2.2L, why no power? Need to figure that out....Id say pass, there are other finer examples out there.

[yarin]

Paint looks good in the pics
No heat exchangers,hmmm probably the orginals rusted out and the header was cheap
Some rust showing under the passenger pans, how bad is it.
Oil cooler is butchered in with rubber hoses and all that crap plus a Fram filter
2.2L with no power? What did they use old 98mm pistons and really low compression like a bus? What are the heads?  3 intake studs so they are 2.0L or 4 studs so they are 1.8 or 2.0l bus?
Carbs are loud that why I hate them unless its a six. This is a minus in my book, no FI.

To me is an ok car, in Seattle about $4000




Geoff

My camera picks up reds, the car is decently faded..
There is no major interior rust, very little. Floor boards seem solid.
Oil cooler is a hack job, i know that... i was shocked when i saw it.

not sure what heads were used, can u see in the pics?
I was under the impression that most non-stock Type IVs go with carbs because they are easier to setup.

A few other things.. no speedo, throttle stick badly, trunk rack needs to go, engine seems to shake a lot in place(bad mounts), driver side door is about 5mm too low, gap is small.

[seanery]

ALL 76's are supposed to be 2.0 cars.
My guess is they didn't like the emissions on the car is why it was traded for headers, they look like they've seen better days. Are they more solid than they look?

Fram filters aren't a great choice for our cars. There was a thread a while back, I can't remember exactly why, but I remember NOT to use one.

[ChrisReale]

The reason not to use them is because they fucking explode. mahle or K & N are two better choices.

[Qarl]

Might be worth your time at $3500 to $4K otherwise no.... be patient and keep looking.... the right car WILL come along. it may take one month or six!

[Mueller]

I'll be able to see the pictures better on my monitor at work in the morning, but from what i can tell, the car is going to have rust on the internals of the chassis, unless they sprayed them internally, which is possible...I don't like the rust that I can see on the motor and suspension.


Front suspension is bone stock, no swaybar, no camber plates....

KYB's are cheap replacment shocks,
being stiff does not mean it's good (not with this car)....looking at the rust on the suspension, the rubber bushings are probebly hard and are not allowing the car to move like it should, so of course it's going to feel stiff.

A true 2.2 motor should rock.....even a bone stock 2.0 well tuned moves along nice, there is something wrong with the motor or it's state of tune.

Getting the car into 1st with a lot of force is not good, the teeth can have burrs on them not allowing smooth engagement. (might just need new bushings)

I'd get a compression check, and look at it again (poke the chassis at the rusty spots underneath it with a screwdriver when no one is looking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

For that kind of money, that motor should be singing and you should be able to drop the clutch at 4k and spin the tires for at least 6 or more feet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[LvSteveH]

I concur with Mueller, a 2.2 if done properly should scream. It’s not a bad car, we have all certainly seen worse, but at that price, it should be a premium “driver”. The market does seem to be climbing lately on 914 prices, maybe it’s the economy coming back? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif) It sounds like you are on the right track, looking at lots of cars. At some point you will fall in love with one, unfortunately, I fall in love with all of them, for me it’s like going to the pound, I figure I can give them a good home. The reality is that unless you have a tremendous amount of space and resources, you are much better off finding that special car that someone else had dumped tons of money into. Making that car “right” could easily cost somewhere north of $5000 if you include paint. It sounds like you have a decent budget, use that to your advantage and scoop in on a deal when one pops up.

Good Luck,
Steve

[anthony]

2.2 is also an odd motor. Usually one goes for a 2056 (2.1 I guess) or a 2276 (2.3).

[Part Pricer]

Car was making so much damn noise but not actually going anywhere...and the exhaust popped a bunch goign downhill off the gas. All normal as far as i know.

These two may actually be related. Backfires are usually caused by leaks. In this case, I would guess that there are some holes in that header/exhaust combination. Repair that, and you should get rid if the popping and cut down on some of the noise. (But not all of it. Carbs are noisy.)

This one is definitely better that the one you looked at the other day. As others have mentioned, this one has its own problems. So, I won't repeat them. To put this car in roadworthy condition (just the things I see that you need to do right away), you're looking at around $2,000. This does not count the rust, paint and things that are unknown at this point.

[72Signal914]

Ask him to drop the Lambo engine in there and maybe, just maybe you'll consider buying the car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif). Car looks nice, not fond of that style and the Porsche crap reflector in the rear. Underbody looks good for a northern car musn't have driven it much in the winter. You never mentioned what he wanted for it, we can probably say yeah not neh buy the asking price.

That 2.2L should also be pumping out some power compared to the other engines, but it's carbed (don't like that either). Honestly in my opinion I wouldn't buy it. I would try to find an earlier model with an FI and if there is any hesitation in your thought, DON'T BUT IT cause there probably is something wrong. Good Luck in your search, what number teener will this be?

[Bleyseng]

Ok, I was able to look at the link pics this morning. (I was on dialup last night)
Car looks better than my first impression. Still needs some rust attention on the pans and probably the rockers. Take the rocker covers off to look at the jacking points.
Doors needs new stays.
Lots of surface rust on the engine, valve covers etc. My impression is the car has sat outside for awhile.
The engine combo should ROCK so maybe best case is the carbs are out of tune. Worst case is the engine is done wrong, old cam that is wiped something like that. I bet the pistons are 100mm if its a 2.2 which were pretty good but could be set up wrong ie the deck height is too big resulting in low compression ratio.
The price is too high for my area, $5900. If you think the car is worth it have HIM pay to have the carbs cleaned, tuned and set up at a good shop. If he won't $4500 tops.
That is a cool color too, Scarlet Red.
Geoff

[Bleyseng]

Oh, they are 914 2.0L heads

[rhodyguy]

there is lots of tin missing on the bottom of the engine. this is a summer car only, no heat. the headers add to the noise. if i lived up north i would inquire about that 74' that was in the auto trader locally. just to see what it's like. be prepared to throw an couple of grand at that car right away.

kevin

[tod914]

I would look around for something else. the engine and tranny seem to be leaking. No power could equate to dumping alot of money into it. Try to find a stock motor with fuel injection. The year of the car isnt as important as the condition. This one appears to be "solid", but there is a fair amount of surface rust visable. Being it was resprayed, its hard to tell what the exterior was like. Looking in the rear trunk, I dont see the serial number stamp. Must of rusted away before the respray. Its not terrible, but I think you can do better. Check hemmings.com, pca.org (go through the different chaphters web pages). Maybe one of the guys out west knows of a good car too. make a post on what exactely you want and are willing to spend. I found that by posting an add, you can get replies/leads to nice cars that arent listed. Brad Mauyer might be a good sorce too. Be patient and dont buy on impulse. Good luck and I'll keep my eyes peeled if anything of interests comes along. Be happy to look at something for you in the NJ area if something comes up. Good luck,

Tod

[cgnj]

Hi,

If you don't think you can bring him down to $4500 or less, don't waste your time. At the close to $4000 price point it's worth another look. Red is a sucker color, gets your blood up and makes you overlook things. Ask me about my first 914. Pretend its babyshit brown. Bring someone who will help you say no.

Deducts from pics
Tie rod ends
ball joints
front and rear sways
oil cooler plumbing
wheels/ tires
shift linkage cover
door stay
overspray
speedo/angle drive
outer CVs
oil cooler and and hub seal
oil pressure sender
door gap
Carb will need throttle stop kit. Deduct
It looks like this car has pre-smog heads. What was the engine code. Numbers don't match deduct
(worth a shot)

Pull rockers and put car up on lift. Take off gravel shield. Check for rust again. Check for collision repairs. collision or rust repair needing welding, leave. Wire Brush and por 15 continue. Check for all of the vins.
I think the motor has a dead hole. you would have know the motor mounts were bad when you stepped on the brakes.
Check compression. Good and even?
Ignition, carb problem or fuel delivery. That regulator is a problem waiting to happen. How many filters? I'm sure you can figure out how to isolate it. If not I can send you a detailed 15 minute trouble shooting guide.
If you're lucky the hose from the breather box is dumped out the front.

It's not a big bore unless he has a reciept. I don't think it matters. Show the nicky price list and moan about replacement cost.

If he hasn't punched you out after troubleshooting the dead hole, sit down.

Remember it's babyshit brown. Has it been hit? Is there more rust than a wire wheel and Por 15 can take care of? You didn't leave yet? Squeeze him on the number. Is it less than the cost of having a shipping a car from out west? Buy it. It's a driver that you and enjoy at the same time. Let's face it. A $4500 dollar car from CA or AZ will cost at about $5500 before you get it home and you' re still going to have to work on it. I can provide carb help for beer.
Tod

Be happy to look at something for you in the NJ area

.

Ha ha. The only rust free cars in NJ aren't for sale.

Carlos

76 2270 "I could have had a flat six"
76 project

see attached smog head pic

[tod914]

True Carlos

On occassion a few come up. Regarding a west coast car, enclosed shipping is about $950. Open would be much cheaper. But, thats money well spent if the car is the one you really want for your given price point. The same car out west, also tends to be a bit cheaper. So, its kind of a wash.
In the last 2 years since ive been back, I seen 3 rust free examples come up for sale in NJ. a 75 2.0, 76 2.0, and a 1971 6. The PCA is having a concours event at schooleys moutian in august i believe. You should check it out Carlos. Hopefully mine will be completed for it. Check out the northern nj web page.

[Aaron Cox]

in the first pic, it looks like there is a large black area on the rear trunklid, is ths shadoW?