some six conversion issues... Options

[meursault]

Steve--

Do you still have that stock 914-6 hard return line? I've been looking for one and have so far come up cold. I've been trying to put this conversion all together "factory style" and I would prefer factory parts if I can get them.

This transmission should work with your stock 3.2 setup---you just need to change the throwout bearing to the 70-71 style (tabs on the sides rather than a ring).

I probably could muscle in the heat exchanger with the steel line, but I just want to pull it as far away from the exhaust as I can. As it is, it's contacting.

Thanks for the interest. I'm flattered that you all are interested in my transmission; I thought almost all this had been done before. I'm really trying to remember where I saw a bracket made up on a car running this transmission.

Argh. Where's Brad? I have a feeling he's seen this before.

[FlatSix]

People proposing to do a six conversion should read this thread.

All the previous six conversion threads are "how much does it cost for..." etc. This is where the real time and effort goes.

It is impossible to say before hand what issues are going to turn up, even with all the correct parts.

One thing though - I'm sure you'll really appreciate your car after you've done this particular journey together.

[J P Stein]

It is impossible to say before hand what issues are going to turn up, even with all the correct parts.

One thing though - I'm sure you'll really appreciate your car after you've done this particular journey together.

Well put.
Subtlety has never been my strong suit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Steve]

Sorry I sold all my stock oil lines years ago.
Occasionally I see them on Ebay but its pretty rare.

Thanks for the info on your gear box.
I know that Werks II in burbank is using and recommends the 70/71 gearbox for 914-6 conversions.
I would love to go stock instead of using the KEP adapter mess.
I saw a mislabeled 70/71 trans on ebay.
He says its a 69 but you can tell by the throw out bearing fork that its a 70/71 trans.
I'm tight on money right now otherwise I would try to buy it.

Steve

[meursault]

For Karl et al:

Here are some pics of sportomatic flanges. Another possible issue with the one I'm using: the seal area is shorter. The problem with the other one is that the outer diameter of the area that slips into the differential casing is too small.

They are both stamped with the same part number: 901 332 209 15

[meursault]

Here's another:

[meursault]

I thought I had a side-view pic of the flanges, but apparently it didn't take in my flaky camera. I'll try again today. You can see the diameter difference in the last pic. The one on the left has the narrower step.

[Brad Roberts]

I'm playing catch up since I have been away from the computer and shop since this past Sunday. Hang in there... I'll be able to answer 90% of these later this evening.

B

[Steve]

Meursault,

I'm very interested in trying this clutch assembly with my 3.2.
If I find a 70/71 trans all I need is the 70/71 throw out bearing and a 3.2 disk and pressure plate?
I looked in all my catalogs and they show a diferent disk and pressure plate for the 70/71 2.2 motor vs. the 72-86 911 engines.
What disk and pressure plate did you use with your 2.7?
Do you have the 911 part numbers?
When you put your trans on do you have to do anything special to get the throw out bearing to connect to the pressure plate?
The 70/71 trans conversion would be a lot less money than the 915 trans with the velios kit.
A 915 trans goes for $1500.00 plus the velios kit $1500.00 plus the shifter roughly $600.00.
All the 3.2 conversions I see out there with the 901 are using the KEP conversion.
The KEP conversion works great and the people and support at KEP are second to none.
But I still have problems with my clutch.
It feels like the clutch cable is stretching or the tube is broken.
I checked the clutch tube its been reinforced in three spots.
It's not going anywhere.
I replaced the weltmeister clutch cable with a factory six cable and that made a significant improvement.
I think my problem is either a bad KEP pressure plate which I doubt or the local machine shop machined my flywheel to thin and now the throw out bearing has to travel furthur to release the clutch.
I adjusted the pedal and stops for maximum throw.
I also did the KEP recommendations which is take out the washer behind the pivot ball and the modification of the throw out bearing fork tube.
I'm having to much fun driving my car to take it apart any time soon.
Some times I have to double clutch and I also have to make sure my seat is close enough to put the clutch pedal to the floor but otherwise its tolerable.

thanks for your help and good luck with your conversion!!!

Steve

[Brad Roberts]

That pull assembly is not your answer. You'll gain nothing by converting to it.

What KEP clutch setup do you have ?? The 9 inch setup requires their throw out bearing.

B

[Steve]

I'm running there complete kit.
9" stage II with there throw out bearing.
You don't agree with the 225m 70/71 setup for a 3.2?
I know that Rich Johnson is running this setup with his 3.0 and werks II is running it with a 2.7.
But I never heard of anyone doing it with a 3.2..

thanks for your help.

Steve

[J P Stein]

In his book, B. Anderson discribes the 70-71 clutch
set-up as "problematical".....which is about as damning as he gets about Porsches.

Looking at old issues of "up fixen" there is at least one article about replacing that tab on the trans after it has broken off.

While the 914 set-up is not the best in the world, it works for me. I use the Kennedy stage 1, 215mm, behind my little 2.7L It'll haze the 225 Hoosiers with no signs of slipage, tho.

I can't see the 911 trans as an upgrade.

[Qarl]

Rich J. is running a hydraulic setup in his 3.0 car. He is using the pull clutch but avoids the cable with a hydraulic master and slave setup.

There was a thread on here about such a conversion. Search the archives.

[Steve]

Thanks for your opinions.
Right now my 9" stage II is tolerable.
When I get a chance I will pull it apart again and check it out.
I might change the stage II to a stage I.
I will also check the flywheel to make sure the local machine shop didn't shave to much off.
I've heard nothing but good things about the KEP conversion.
I just need to figure out what's wrong.
My motor is a Euro 3.2 I thinks its 231 HP.
The stage I should be fine.

Steve

[Qarl]

Another thing to look into...

The clutch pulley on the tranny... are you running the factory white plastic one? Check it for damage and wear.

Yoy may consider replacing it with a stronger alternative.

Patrick Motorsports sells one made of Delrin. That;s what I will be installing in my 3.2 conversion using the KEP 225mm stage II setup.

I know billet aluminum ones are also available.

[J P Stein]

Steve:
I wouldn't be too quick to change over clutches.
It sounds as if you have some kind of linkage problem.

You wrote that Kennedy suggested that the washer
under the T/O arm pivot be removed..did I get that right?

This will give you less adjustment.....I don't know how the stage II set up works (bigger clutch and all) and I'm speculating here, but it seems odd.

When the clutch pedal is fully depressed, does the T/O arm come close to the trans case? If not, you could add a spacer (or a stack of washers) between the adj. nut and pivot wedge thingy (the technical name, me thinks....the Brits would give it a real name...like bollard or sumthin'). This would get you some adjustment at the nut and the clutch pedal off the floor..... if my thinking is correct (a shakey concept) .

If the arm comes close to the trans case, replacing the washer under the T/O pivot is the answer...if it all fits without binding everything up inside the bellhousing......a PITA to even try.

I used the stage I because I feared the clutch linkage would be easily overstressed using something really stout. As I said, it ain't the greatest set-up in the world......the 215mm set up was cheep, also, since I already had the flywheel.

[Steve]

They told me to remove the washer so I would get more travel in the throw out bearing arm or fork.
The fork never hits the trans opening.
I adjusted the clutch pedal and floor board to give me as much travel as possible to the floor.
I am running the white plastic roller thingy.
It looked ok when I installed it and it rolled smoothly.
The previous 2.7 motor did not have any clutch problems at all.
It wasn't until I put in the 3.2 with the KEP conversion that I ran into this problem.
I live in Orange County does anyone know of a local shop that is familiar with this setup??

thanks for the advice and help.

Steve

[meursault]

This is what I can say for the 911 pull clutch transmission:

It was problematic in the 911 application because Porsche had to make a cable "push" the throwout fork. It had to go through all sorts of different gyrations to make the cable sheath effectively do the work. In a 914, it's just the thing to eliminate the cable pulley.

You have the same strength issues as other 901 boxes, but there's also additional strain on the ball pivot. A heavy clutch like those intended for 915 boxes can break or tear that pivot right out.

The best way to handle a stronger motor like a 3.2 is to upgrade to a stronger gearbox, like a 915. I'm sorry to have suggested otherwise.

I decided to go pull clutch more as an experiment than anything. If I had just stayed with a push clutch, everything would have been done by now, but no, I just HAD to challenge the pulley. Now it laughs at me as I try to figure out how I want to make a bracket for the cable.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/gunner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

[Steve]

Thanks for the reply!!!
Let me know how you make out.
I'm still very curious how your ordeal turns out.
I heard diferent stories that the throw out fork comes off the throw out bearing and then you have to somehow reach in through those holes to fix it.
When I get some time I will try to troubleshoot my own clutch mess.
But I promissed the wife I would finish the back yard, front yard and other honey do chores first.
It could be months before I can dig into the beast again.
But for now its tolerable and I'm having to much fun driving it.
I have noticed that most 3.2 conversions either stay KEP or they win the lottery and go with the 916 conversion.

take care and thanks for your help,

Steve

[meursault]

I heard diferent stories that the throw out fork comes off the throw out bearing and then you have to somehow reach in through those holes to fix it.

Well, that's how you install it. You have to rotate the throwout bearing to a point where the tabs are positioned behind the fork. As long as nothing else breaks (like a pivot, maybe) it'll hold itself in place. I hope.