1.7 bored to 2.0, thoughts? Options

[yarin]

Anyone? Am I better off finding a stock 2.0L with FI than a 2.0 bored from a 1.7 and carbed?

[MarkV]

2.0 is 94mm bore X 71mm stroke & has larger valves than a 1.7. The 1.7 stock crank is 66mm. The 1.7 stock had 80hp the stock 2.0 in 73&74 had 95hp.

2.0 car will be more expensive to purchase but the extra horsepower makes a significant difference. A 2.0 car w/ carbs is worth less than one w/ injection but you can always convert it back.

When I was looking, I only considered 73 or 74 cars w/ a 2.0. I don't care for the late bumpers on 75 or 76 cars. I ended up w/ a 73 2.0 w/ carbs. A lot of people don't like carbs but for me they have been maintenance free. I rounded-up the parts to convert to FI but my car runs good so I am just driving it.

[tat2dphreak]

personally I prefer Carbs... easier to tune IMO, but many people will argue that FI is easier.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

you can bore/stroke the 1.7 to a 2.0, but you will need to open up the heads... to accept the cylinders AND it won't breathe right with stock 1.7 heads... but for my money, I would go ahead and make it a 2056(71x96) or go all out and make it a 2270(78.4x96)

I looked into making my 1.7 a 2.0, but for the large sum of money... you may as well spend a little more and really get some power!

[Bleyseng]

You can find the 2.0L motors with FI and they put out stock 95hp.
A 2.0L (1.7block) with 1.7 heads will put out less hp unless the 2.0L heads are installed. The hp is in the 2.0L heads design.
The carbed 2.0l with a bigger cam can get up there in hp too.

If you are thinking about going to a 2.0L find a complete one with FI. Increases the value of the car and they run sweet.
Geoff

[tat2dphreak]

finding a 2.0L will probably be cheaper than converting the 1.7 also btw... the cost of the individual parts and the head work that you HAVE to do will be much more expensive... and if you're one of those people that care about resale value... a 2.0 with FI is the horse to put your money on... a 2.0 and a side shift tranny will net you a much better price if you decide to get rid of it later...

[cgnj]

How was it done?
1911 66x96 on stock 1.7 register surface=run cylinder wall is skinny.
1911 66x96 using 1.8 heads or 1.7 opened = ok
1971 2.0 internals interesting, but still not a 2.0

My motor for the 76 project car will be 2055 built on a 1.8 case.

KB pistons 250. Aircooled.net
Machine cylinders 100
Big valve heads 750 (Headflow Masters)

Really doesn't cost much more than a stock rebuild.

2270 is a quantum leap in expense. Ask me how I know. Save your pennies for a flat 6

CGNJ

76 2270 "I could have had a flat 6"
76 Project

[tat2dphreak]

2270 is a quantum leap in expense. Ask me how I know. Save your pennies for a flat 6

I'll bite since I haven't been here long... how DO you know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

seriously how much did it set you back? I'm curious b/c this is the direction I have thought about heading... possibly with one of Raby's Kits... b/c then I'd have a pro markup of the engine, but still get to assemble it myself...

but if we're talking full-on 6 conversion prices... that may be what I do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Bleyseng]

Betcha it cost about $6k for a 2270 from Raby. At that kind of money a 3.2 six is within reach.

Geoff

[seanery]

there's a 3.2 in Panorama right now for $5k.

[tat2dphreak]

I was going to use one of his "KITS" where I can still assemble it... I was expecting about 6k for HIM to build it, but only about 2500 for the kit... but who knows, I may still have a cheapskate mentality

6k is a lot... you can get a renegade kit and a 350 V8 crate engine from CHevrolet for that!

prices like that and 6 conversions or renegade kits start making sense to me...

what is involved in getting a 6 in besides the obvious motor mount issues and tranny upgrade(?)... I know a five lug conversion is pretty standard... but I was planning that down the road anyway... what am I missing?

[tat2dphreak]

nevermind

http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/914-6_cons..._info_guide.htm

I think the added convienece of just dropping in a 150 hp motor overcomes the rewards of a 300hp motor for guys like me that aren't into tracks and just like to run up and down the street and have a blast...

10k conversion and 6months work(minimum) seems like more than I want to invest into the conversion...

I do still think the 5 lug conversion is worth it for several reasons though

[cgnj]

I don't know that Jake Raby is selling kits any longer. He posted on STF that he wasn't going to do kits any longer. No prices for kits on his site any longer. About 2 years ago, his kit price for a 2270 was about 6-6.5 with your core before extras. Didn't count shipping both ways. If I had a 1.7 or 1.8 motor I would have spent the money. I didn't want to core my 2.0.

File cabinet is in garage (don't want wife to stumble on reciepts) 2 914's on stands, one motor on stand waiting for heads, so these will be numgers off the top of my head.

2.0 with euro p/cs rebuild costs X (parts and machining)
2055 cost X-200 (KB pistons and machine cylinders cheaper than euro pc set)

Some of these things may not be required for your app.
2270
78mm crank +450
Type 1 rods +330
Cylinder shims +40 (pistons do come out of the top)
Shadek oil pump and cover $40
Machine pump to clear cam face +100
Reduced base circle cam +25
1.7 rockers/911 adjusters +100
Shim kit for rockers +10
First cut bearings +60
Fancy cut to fit pushrods +100
Big valve ported heads +600
Solid spacers for rocker arms ??
Match port idf manifolds +75
Machine rods after clearing them +150

So, i could have rebuilt my 2.0 to 2055 and been driving the last 2 years and had at least 2000 extra im my pocket. Shortly after I started, I did buy a parts car that had a 1.8. I'm certain by then the kit option was gone. Jake may have changed his mindon the kits. If you have a 1.7 or 1.8 the 2270 kit may makes sense, if its available. I'm certain that I have more than $6 to 6.5 k that a raby kit would have cost me in this motor. Tom Perso has a web page about his 2270 and has said on STF that he has more into his motor than a kit from Jake would have cost. I learned alot. I've enjoyed collecting the parts. I regret not finding the parts car sooner, cause I would have just paid for a kit and would have been able to drive my car for two years.

I was slammed on the STF after I started my project because a 914 guy asked about a 2270 and I said to save his pennies for a 6. We have that option. They are more VW focused. I figured that a six conversion would cost me 10-13k. I have half that money into this motor, and you know what? No matter how fast it is, I'm still going to be looking to do 3.0 conversion. So 2055 and save your pennies.

finding a 2.0L will probably be cheaper than converting the 1.7 also btw... the cost of the individual parts and the head work that you HAVE to do will be much more expensive... and if you're one of those people that care about resale value... a 2.0 with FI is the horse to put your money on... a 2.0 and a side shift tranny will net you a much better price if you decide to get rid of it later...

Tack the rebuild cost on.



CGNJ

76 2270 "I could have had a flat 6"
76 project

[Brad Roberts]

Thanks CGN,

for braking this down for us.

I also tell people to "do a 6". My primary reason: resale value. A 914 converted to 6 isnt "hot rodded" in the eyes of people looking to drop 12-15k on a 914. I would rather have 200hp with a bone stock 3.0 engine than 200hp with a high strung 4 cyl (and I have had both) the 4cyl was blast but lacked bottom end torque.


B

[Bleyseng]

I agree totally with you B. Install a six and you have a Porsche. Install a high HP 2270 and you have a 914 with a VW engine in it. Big difference.
Stay stockish and you have lots of buyers when you sell.

Geoff

[Mueller]

I'm sure I'll be wanting a /6 even after the turbo/4 is finished, at least I'll have something fun to drive while I save my pennies for a big/6 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Of course this also means I need to plan ahead and have Tony @ TC Design build my cage out of the thicker wall tubing for a future but heavier /6.....(got that idea from Andy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) )

[Mockmaw]

I don't understand the whole buying/modding based on resale.. I can understand it in some contexts: you buy a condo when you're single and just getting started, you don't buy the family house until you know you're going to have the family.. so when you buy the condo, you look for something that'll have good resale. If your car is just transportation, the vehicle to get from point A to point B, I can see the importance of a good resale because chances are a number of years down the line you're going to need to sell your old one and get a new one.

It just doesn't seem the same for 914's.. people get into this hobby because it's fun, not because it's an economically sound investment. So if the point of the car is to have fun, do what's fun.. do what excites you and keeps you interested.. even if it does drop the resale value.

I can imagine people making decisions to keep resale value high if they know they're not going to keep it.. but if you're not going to keep it, why'd you spend the money on it in the first place? It's better to just save the money and buy what you want from the start, even if it takes longer (example: if you want a six and don't have the money yet, don't buy a four to tide yourself over.. even if you do make wise decisions to maintain resale value.)

Exception: With mechanics and people who do this to make money, I can see the importance of decision-making geared towards enhancing or maintaining good sale/resale value.

Maybe I'm missing something though...

[Lawrence]

Exception: With mechanics and people who do this to make money, I can see the importance of decision-making geared towards enhancing or maintaining good sale/resale value.

Maybe I'm missing something though...

Well, kind of.

There are some folks on here who have had the same car for years and years. Those folks don't worry about resale. Some people have a car "for now" and are waiting to find their "keeper". Some just enjoy having a car for a while, and turn it over in a year or two to find the next toy.

It all depends on your perspective. Some of us also see the 914 as a luxury asset. If times get rough (i.e. job loss, etc), knowing that you have a commodity that you could turn around quickly is security.

Also, if the "keeper" car shows up on the horizon, it's nice to know you have something that you can get quick (relatively) cash for.

-Rusty

[Bleyseng]

Well said Rusty....
I have had my car for 7 years. Would I sell it, yup.

Geoff

[Mockmaw]

Well said Rusty, thank you! Definitely perspectives that I had not thought about.

(Thanks for shipping the coil out promptly too! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif))