914 smog testing, Whats required in your area? Options

[ConeDodger]

In CA, it's a real difficulty to have a '75 or later car. On the plus side, our air in and around SoCal is so much cleaner than it was in the '70s, '80s and even '90s. At least we got that going for us, which is nice.

'75 is exempt. You mean '76 or later I'm sure... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[colingreene]

sniffer dyno test.

[barefoot]

Smog Smog, what's that ? doesn't exist is SC

[EdwardBlume]

Bought a brand new (brand new) 2016 4Runner in Reno 2 weeks ago. Brought it to CA and the DMV. It had to be inspected AND smog tested.

I asked the DMV if they thought it was really necessary for a smog test for a new car. I blew their minds with the question. It required some thought, and the response was, you need to get it tested. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

[rhodyguy]

Exempt after 25 years.

[r_towle]

Bought a brand new (brand new) 2016 4Runner in Reno 2 weeks ago. Brought it to CA and the DMV. It had to be inspected AND smog tested.

I asked the DMV if they thought it was really necessary for a smog test for a new car. I blew their minds with the question. It required some thought, and the response was, you need to get it tested. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

Uummm, have you been reading the news lately?

Volkswagen

And btw,
It's all Robs fault.

[green914]

Guess I will find out in December if my 93 Chevy will pass. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) Other than a visual inspection of fuel lines is there anything else to do before being tested?

[somd914]

And to make matters worse, EPA once again is pushing for E-15 gas. Their bill failed a few years ago, and even though most of the scientific-based reports I have read do not side with the EPA, it's a matter of time before the farm and alcohol lobbies win out.

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2016/05...ion/?refer=news

[Dominic]

Jeff,
I never knew that test existed either. The only car I have that fits in that category is my 82' VW Rabbit Pick-up, it passed smog with no issues, the tech looked at the evap system hoses to ensure they matched the diagram on the sticker under the hood and tested my gas cap. What else does this test encompass?

I also had my 2013 VW Passat TDi "Smog Tested" which means they hook up to your OBD II port to see if anyone installed any aftermarket software. No tailpipe testing.

Cheers,
Dominic

[ConeDodger]

It's the only machine in the shop that doesn't broadcast it's result to the State. It is mostly visual as best as I can tell. When I first took over the shop, and we were up and running, I assumed everything was working as it should. Then one day my tech pointed at the machine, and said "we should get that up and working." To which I wanted to respond, WTF Brad! Communicate! I don't know what this's hit is or does! But, instead I said "what have you been doing up until now? He said, "I've been telling the machine that the car passed." So this means, the test is mostly visual and the part that tests the gas cap doesn't broadcast its result. It works now. I had to convince the company that supplied it that they did because they kept telling me they had nothing to do with it.

I see jcd914 is on this thread. He works for the company that supplies the software that tells the machine what cars need what tests...

[ConeDodger]

Jeff,
I never knew that test existed either. The only car I have that fits in that category is my 82' VW Rabbit Pick-up, it passed smog with no issues, the tech looked at the evap system hoses to ensure they matched the diagram on the sticker under the hood and tested my gas cap. What else does this test encompass?

I also had my 2013 VW Passat TDi "Smog Tested" which means they hook up to your OBD II port to see if anyone installed any aftermarket software. No tailpipe testing.

Cheers,
Dominic

The Dyno machine with the rollers in the floor is called a BAR 97. Meaning 97 and older cars back to the exemption use this machine. Cars newer than this just get the OBDII query. So yes,no tailpipe sniff.

[jcd914]

The EVAP system pressure test is just looking for leaks in the fuel vapor recover system on your car. In theory the fuel tank is sealed and any vapors from heat or sloshing around are routed through hoses to a charcoal canister. From there they are sucked int the engine and burned, which is good. Raw fuel vapors is not good for the environment, make you garage stink and this system has no negative impact on the way you car runs, it is a win win (IMHO). Typically there are some vacuum and/or computer controls that limit when the fuel vapors are sucked in and that varies from car to car.

The test typically involves clamping the vacuum hose leading from the charcoal canister to the engine and then putting pressure into the fuel tank. They use a gas cap adapter hooked to the tester and I think they use nitrogen. The tank is pressurized and then allowed to sit for a timed period and over that time frame it can't loose too much pressure. I was never able to find any specs on how much pressure is put in the tank or how much it is allowed to loose, the tester figures it out.

Some system were not designed to hold pressure but to passively collect the vapors and this test is not applicable to these car/trucks. Or the testing is just for the tank and the lines/hoses leading to the canister.

I think 914's would fall into that category since the canister is cleared of vapors by the cooling fan blowing air through it and into the air filter.

Since I have not smogged a 914 for a couple decades I have no idea if CA would require this test on a 914.

Jim

[ConeDodger]

Just talked to my tech. The 76 2.0 and 1.8 both require a test of the evaporative system. How this works is like this: a gas cap adapter is put in place of your own gas cap. A small amount of pressure, 2psi of nitrogen gas is applied to the tank and the decision of pass/fail is based on the system holding that pressure. As for damaging your car, it would have to be pretty fragile for 2psi to damage anything.

[jcd914]

Jeff,
I never knew that test existed either. The only car I have that fits in that category is my 82' VW Rabbit Pick-up, it passed smog with no issues, the tech looked at the evap system hoses to ensure they matched the diagram on the sticker under the hood and tested my gas cap. What else does this test encompass?

I also had my 2013 VW Passat TDi "Smog Tested" which means they hook up to your OBD II port to see if anyone installed any aftermarket software. No tailpipe testing.

Cheers,
Dominic

The Dyno machine with the rollers in the floor is called a BAR 97. Meaning 97 and older cars back to the exemption use this machine. Cars newer than this just get the OBDII query. So yes,no tailpipe sniff.

The dyno tester was called BAR 97 before the OBDII only test was implemented. I used to have to have my 2008 truck and 2001 VW dyno tested, now they just plug them in. I thought it came out of laws passed in 1997, hence the BAR 97 name.

Don't yet know about my 96 Audi since it has a check engine light on (EGR prob) and so it fails immediately and does not get the chance to fail some other portion of the test. It won't get a dyno test anyway since it is permanent AWD.

I never renewed my Smog license after my Bar 84 license expired.

Jim

[JeffBowlsby]

Good thread! The masochist in me has never been afraid of the CA smog reqs for the 76 cars. Never knew about this test until I saw the sign. Technically all 914s are required to pass this test even those that do not require smog testing, but that is another topic.

So on a 914, two clamps would actually be needed for this pressure test, testing the hoses and connections between the fuel tank, expansion tank and charcoal canister. Pressure testing the air filter housing would be good too if a block-off at the throttle body could be devised.

2 psi does not seem like a lot but other pressurized systems operate at low pressure - like the natural gas plumbing in your house.

I wonder how many 914s would pass this test due to old vacuum lines or leakage of these components? The end cap easily pops off the plastic charcoal canisters and probably 99.9% of the vacuum lines in this circuit are 40 years old and loose at the fittings. They should at least require passing this test for 1976 concours 914s...

[ConeDodger]

Jeff,
I never knew that test existed either. The only car I have that fits in that category is my 82' VW Rabbit Pick-up, it passed smog with no issues, the tech looked at the evap system hoses to ensure they matched the diagram on the sticker under the hood and tested my gas cap. What else does this test encompass?

I also had my 2013 VW Passat TDi "Smog Tested" which means they hook up to your OBD II port to see if anyone installed any aftermarket software. No tailpipe testing.

Cheers,
Dominic

The Dyno machine with the rollers in the floor is called a BAR 97. Meaning 97 and older cars back to the exemption use this machine. Cars newer than this just get the OBDII query. So yes,no tailpipe sniff.

The dyno tester was called BAR 97 before the OBDII only test was implemented. I used to have to have my 2008 truck and 2001 VW dyno tested, now they just plug them in. I thought it came out of laws passed in 1997, hence the BAR 97 name.

Don't yet know about my 96 Audi since it has a check engine light on (EGR prob) and so it fails immediately and does not get the chance to fail some other portion of the test. It won't get a dyno test anyway since it is permanent AWD.

I never renewed my Smog license after my Bar 84 license expired.

Jim

Probably true Jim. I just own the shop. Not a smog tech...

[EdwardBlume]

I crack up at this BS.

Met the CA director for air quality. Interesting facts: there are no emissions standards for cows, yet cows produce a massive amount of methane gas.

Jet airplanes, trains, ships, etc.. no smog. Ever see how many planes are in the air?

While I am ALL for clean air, clean environment, etc. I think the CA gas, CA smog, etc is just an overblown profit center with the over reaching goal of getting your out of old cars, and into new cars, with the side effect of putting you in debt, and more sales tax in the coffers.

Just IMHO

[ConeDodger]

I crack up at this BS.

Met the CA director for air quality. Interesting facts: there are no emissions standards for cows, yet cows produce a massive amount of methane gas.

Jet airplanes, trains, ships, etc.. no smog. Ever see how many planes are in the air?

While I am ALL for clean air, clean environment, etc. I think the CA gas, CA smog, etc is just an overblown profit center with the over reaching goal of getting your out of old cars, and into new cars, with the side effect of putting you in debt, and more sales tax in the coffers.

Just IMHO

Normally I agree with you just to get you to shut up Rob, but... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

There is a dramatic difference in air quality between say the 1980 - 1990's and now, particularly in Southern California. There is no sales tax on the smog test. There is an $8.25 cent charge for the "certificate." I suppose that funds the program.
Not sure the gas makes as big a difference but, as I said, look at the air quality. LA looked like Bejing in the 1980's... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Aircraft performance is so strictly regulated that it's a virtual certainty they are running their best.

Cows? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[EdwardBlume]

I crack up at this BS.

Met the CA director for air quality. Interesting facts: there are no emissions standards for cows, yet cows produce a massive amount of methane gas.

Jet airplanes, trains, ships, etc.. no smog. Ever see how many planes are in the air?

While I am ALL for clean air, clean environment, etc. I think the CA gas, CA smog, etc is just an overblown profit center with the over reaching goal of getting your out of old cars, and into new cars, with the side effect of putting you in debt, and more sales tax in the coffers.

Just IMHO

Normally I agree with you just to get you to shut up Rob, but... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

There is a dramatic difference in air quality between say the 1980 - 1990's and now, particularly in Southern California. There is no sales tax on the smog test. There is an $8.25 cent charge for the "certificate." I suppose that funds the program.
Not sure the gas makes as big a difference but, as I said, look at the air quality. LA looked like Bejing in the 1980's... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Aircraft performance is so strictly regulated that it's a virtual certainty they are running their best.

Cows? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Then just keep agreeing....

We do have cleaner burning in modern cars with FI and CCs.

I would agree more with curbs on industrial pollution vs cars. 80's Burbank is just like today's Silicon Valley on a hot day. I think its the dudes smoking and vaping from their Prius cars.

I paid over $3000 in sales tax for a new car. If the car changes hands 3 times in its lifetime, it will generate $5-6K in income for the state. You may disagree, but the government isn't stupid when it comes to pulling money into its coffers. Since its in the business of selling carbon credits, you have to wonder if my 914 is really THE problem, or just not a lucrative enough solution.

still IMHO.

[EdwardBlume]

Yeah, cows:

http://animals.howstuffworks.com/mammals/methane-cow.htm