Air Conditioning, Evaporator solutions Options

[Mowog4]

I am working on a Subie conversion and am trying to figure out AC. I live in the desert (Phoenix) so AC will add a lot of usability to the car. Ideally I would like to blow air through the existing vents. I have searched a lot on the forum and see a lot of starts, but few functioning units. I am traveling to Texas today so I am going to check out Vintage Air and Old Air Products to see what products they might recommend for me to modify. Plan two is to hit the Pick and Pulls and search for the most compact evaporator I can find.

Any help or general suggestions is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Ed

[Cairo94507]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) I am looking forward to this project thread. Good luck.

[76-914]

Just went thru this last year, Ed. I couldn't locate one that fit where the old air/heater box sits beneath the WW's. Maybe there is one now but you'll have to check. Vintage Air has a compact unit that is close but still .5" too tall. As far as under the dash: An OEM unit is a nice fit but 40+ years old. The smaller units protrude out too far. IIRC, they stick out ~1.5" past the knee pad which, IMHO will look like (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) That being said, they do offer a larger model that will bolt up using the existing knee pad bolts and looks pretty much OEM once set. I listed it in my build thread but forget which model it is. I was able to re-use the OEM defrost vents with minor modifications. Vintage air is quite helpful but did not have any suggestions that would help us. Evidently I was their 1st customer installing that unit in a 914. My only complaint with the unit is the fan. I have to run it on low as it is too powerful for such a small cab. When you talk with them ask if they have any means to lower the fan output on that model. Since it is DC I was thinking a step down transformer??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Kent

[timothy_nd28]

Thanks for taking this on. I also was going to pursue this idea with reusing the factory fresh air box and stuffing a small evaporator coil inside it a few years ago, but another member stated that he may reproduce a bigger fresh air box to accommodate a evaporator coil. I think his idea may have fizzled out (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I do like the idea of keeping the interior absolutely stock looking, but with AC! I never liked the kneepad hanging unit as it is bulky. I have talked with a company that made a unit for the 914, that retrofitted a evap coil inside the fresh air box. The owner of the company even sent me pictures on how the evap coil fit inside that small box. (extremely tight fit) I'll have to dig up those pictures and post them on here. The owner went on to say that the job sucked and would never do it again!

Evaporator coil technology has changed over the past few years, making them smaller due to new production methods of microchannels. Even though they are smaller, it is super easy to overcharge the system.

Again, very awesome that you are taking this on. But I think you are on crack for wanting to go to the junk yard to take apart random cars to measure evap coils. The smaller the car, the more labor intensive it is to get to these coils. I think it would be better for you to make friends with the guy at your local autopart store, and ask them if you can go behind the counter to measure these coils.

[wes]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) I'll be watching to as would like to add an efficient small unit that would keep my car cool and mostly stock looking on the inside compartment. Best of luck!

[whitetwinturbo]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Chris914n6]

There is a reason I'm going with custom made cores. But you're welcome to do as you please.

Fizzled. Stalled pending a running test car and a few minor things.

[Mowog4]

There is a reason I'm going with custom made cores. But you're welcome to do as you please.

Fizzled. Stalled pending a running test car and a few minor things.

I am by nature an impatient man. If you come up with a solution that is better I would be thrilled to write a check and have a proven solution. I am new to this board, but I have looked over years of posts and there seems to be lots of starts with few results.

With that said, in the spirit of less than well thought out ideas, I am closing in on a plan. I visited Old Air Products in Ft Worth, Tx today and bought their 700 series product. http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/images/CAP-800.jpg

My plan is to cut the unit in half, effectively separating the evaporate Core and box from the fans. My thought is to build a fan enclosure in the fresh air box, duct the air into the fans from the cabin (so it doesn't pull air from the trunk) and duct the air from the fans to the Evap box under the dash. I will give me AC and heat, the downside is their is no separation of defroster so and face level vents (so they will run simultaneously at least initially)

My unit should show up this weekend, so I will play with it then. Clint from Old Air Products was pretty cool, he spent a lot of time with me figuring out a plan.

I will keep it updated with progress any thoughts/suggestions are appreciated. At best it will take some work, maybe look a tad strange but should work and can be made prettier later. At worse, I have certainly spent $400 on dumber projects.

[wes]

The thought just came to me maybe we should get Mark at 914rubber to build a kit he's pretty good at coming up with good solutions.

[Chris914n6]

That's essentially what I did for the first one. Bought a unit from a Hot Rod Air company and had a new enclosure made to my design.
Owner of the company died and it folded. Finally tracked down the core maker but they didn't survive the Recession.
So that's where I'm at today, working on testing a fresh paper design using modern cores of my sizing.

I'll offer up some pointers as you progress, as I practically have an A/C engineering degree. So many have attempted to retrofit then disappeared (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[draperjojo]

Now if someone would design an effective condenser that didn't require cutting the front trunk up...make it look just like a 73 front bumper...lol

[MarkV]

My car came with a/c and I replaced the compressor with a rotary Sanden. I built a frame around the condensor with 1/2" tubing and expanded metal mesh to clean up the installation. My evaporator could be used but I have been trying to figure out something that looks better. I bought the unit in the photos below thinking I could run hoses to the factory vents. The problem is that even as shallow as the evaporator is it's pretty impossible to hide it. If you try to mount it in the center of the dash the u-joint for the steering is in the way. The factory aftermarket unit is offset with the motor on the passenger side so that it clears the u-joint.

[Mowog4]

My car came with a/c and I replaced the compressor with a rotary Sanden. I built a frame around the condensor with 1/2" tubing and expanded metal mesh to clean up the installation. My evaporator could be used but I have been trying to figure out something that looks better. I bought the unit in the photos below thinking I could run hoses to the factory vents. The problem is that even as shallow as the evaporator is it's pretty impossible to hide it. If you try to mount it in the center of the dash the u-joint for the steering is in the way. The factory aftermarket unit is offset with the motor on the passenger side so that it clears the u-joint.

Mark
I bought the same unit, along with a mock up case. I am going to cut the fans off, as well as the front where yours vents. I will let you know if it will work. If I can mock it up and it works I will get a friend who is a plastics guy to build me some ducting. If it doesn't work, and Chris914n6 doesn't have a unit for sale, I will throw the towel in and run an under dash unit

[MarkV]

The problem is that the fan motor for the unit is mounted in the center and it draws air from both sides of the 2 plastic squirrel cages. Its going to be hard to design something that pulls that air from the cab when it is mounted to the firewall. I bought the unit I have on an ebay auction a long time ago cheap. I think it is designed for a Ford pickup. I may remove the face from it and mount it to my original 914 under dash unit. The back half of the case is a universal aftermarket design and I think its the same as the 914 under dash unit at least that way I will have a new evaporator core and metering valve.

There are some small under dash universal units that are available. I am not sure if they are small enough to clear the steering u-joint. This one might work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-UNDER-DA...zAN&vxp=mtr

[76-914]

Not trying to throw a wet towel on this subject but until someone like Chris builds a plug-n-play condenser it is going to be a Royal PITA to remote one of these systems. Besides, under mount IS period correct for our cars.

[Mowog4]

The problem is that the fan motor for the unit is mounted in the center and it draws air from both sides of the 2 plastic squirrel cages. Its going to be hard to design something that pulls that air from the cab when it is mounted to the firewall. I bought the unit I have on an ebay auction a long time ago cheap. I think it is designed for a Ford pickup. I may remove the face from it and mount it to my original 914 under dash unit. The back half of the case is a universal aftermarket design and I think its the same as the 914 under dash unit at least that way I will have a new evaporator core and metering valve.

There are some small under dash universal units that are available. I am not sure if they are small enough to clear the steering u-joint. This one might work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-UNDER-DA...zAN&vxp=mtr

I will have a better handle on it when I cut it up this weekend. It is going to be a pita no matter what, I will give it a shot. I will let you know how it goes

[Mowog4]

Not trying to throw a wet towel on this subject but until someone like Chris builds a plug-n-play condenser it is going to be a Royal PITA to remote one of these systems. Besides, under mount IS period correct for our cars.

I am not too concerned about period correct, kind of went out the window for me with the Subie running gear. My challenge with the undercount is I am 6'3 and most of my friends who would be riding with me are tall as well. Prefer not to limit the leg room with a low hanging unit. Of course if it doesn't work I will install the undermount unit

[andys]

You guys might take a look at rear AC units found in vans and SUV's. They are generally quite compact as compared to many primary evaporators.

For my car, I used the Hot Rod Air under dash unit which somewhat resembles the dealer installed AC.

Andys

[ssuperflyoldguy]

I suggest a Manhattan Project for the "best" AC system for both aircooled n watercooled 914's - I think there are enough of us that a substantial amount of $ could be generated to build an evap housing to work with a potential heater core to be slipped in also. Need the ultimate setup. If we can get it sorted out, maybe one of our friendly 914 vendors can take over the production n sales? Not familiar with enough with the 914 ventilation system yet to really get anything sorted out but this is what I do.

One fan to do defrost, cool & heat. The good thing is that the cabin volume is so small. Very good. Possibly configure for other types of project cars, this has been an ongoing discussion on Classic Mini forums also -

I have a rust bucket that I can donate the front section for fit up, won't have at my house for a month or so maybe not able to make this year's hotness. Bay area volunteer's? Naysayer's need not apply please n thank you.

[timothy_nd28]

The key thing is getting all this to fit inside the fresh air Behr box. If you can find a small enough coil, very little modification would be necessary. The better route is to make a custom box to fit a standard off the shelf evap coil and possible a heater core for the water pumpers. It would be cool to 3d print a new box, or use plastic vacuum forming to create two clam shells that snap together.

When making a new box, the question is, do you run outside air across the evap coil, or do you have provisions to bring in return air from the cabin, essentially blocking off the cowl vents?