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> real power goal..., for a 2.1L with fi.
MattR
post Apr 7 2005, 01:21 PM
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Aaron, keep 5th gear. You get an extra 5th gear, flip it, and put it where 3rd is.
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Aaron Cox
post Apr 7 2005, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE (MattR @ Apr 7 2005, 12:21 PM)
Aaron, keep 5th gear. You get an extra 5th gear, flip it, and put it where 3rd is.

ahh... now i see....


sounds like a weekend project (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)
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Bleyseng
post Apr 7 2005, 02:59 PM
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Yep, Matt has it right. Locate a extra 5th gear complete and install a new syncro then install it where 3rd is on the gear stack.
You could do it in a day....not too hard.


Geoff (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
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cha914
post Apr 7 2005, 04:03 PM
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Matt,

I have a RAT 2056 that puts out 130 crank hp and 130tq on his dyno...its basically the same motor you want to build, slight port on 2.0 heads, split cam, lightened flywheel, 44 webers, and euro race header...

Its a kick, not crazy fast, but will keep up with most...but I can't really give a good comparison as I have never driven a stock 2.0L 914.

I did have to add an front mounted oil cooler to keep the temps down, but now they stay around 180 most the time...

Yours,

Tony
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Joseph Mills
post Apr 7 2005, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Apr 7 2005, 01:03 PM)
Pat, change out the 3rd gear to a flipped 5th then if you want more scream! The hot 2056 is way fun but starts to dog in 3rd so change the ratio so its more of a close ratio gear box. Then first thru third blasts are way quicker.
Geoff (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) Geoff is right.

My 2.0 with Euro P/C's, carbs/Isky cam/valvetrain dyno's at 110 at the rear wheels. And it's WAY more fun than my 1.8 was. It's a blast to drive, but the 3rd gear flip makes it even more fun.

I did the swap for AX, and it's great for it... most of my courses now it's all 3rd gear except for extremly tight turns.

However, I didn't realize how sweet it would be on the street. When you hit 3rd the engine stays right on top of the upper powerband. Makes me smile everytime I shift to 3rd. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

However, for track days, I'm sure it won't be so cool. It means you're going to have to downshift into 3rd much later and on the upshift to 4th watch the tach drop like a VW bug. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

I can verify that Tony's RAT engine sounds awesome and runs great.
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mattillac
post Apr 7 2005, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE (cha914 @ Apr 7 2005, 02:03 PM)
Matt,

I have a RAT 2056 that puts out 130 crank hp and 130tq on his dyno...its basically the same motor you want to build, slight port on 2.0 heads, split cam, lightened flywheel, 44 webers, and euro race header...

Its a kick, not crazy fast, but will keep up with most...but I can't really give a good comparison as I have never driven a stock 2.0L 914.

I did have to add an front mounted oil cooler to keep the temps down, but now they stay around 180 most the time...

Yours,

Tony

did you get a kit, or did jake assemble engine?
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anthony
post Apr 7 2005, 05:27 PM
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McMark gave a few of us rides at the Napa BBQ get-together.

He has this exact combo - 2056, mild cam, Kit Carlsen FI. Compared to my higher mileage all original 2L, it felt like a screamer. He was chirping those Falkens in 2nd gear. The car pulled way harder than mine does. It was actually very inspiring because I have most of the parts to build up a 2nd 2056 engine.

I figure my all original engine is a little tired and probably putting out around 80hp so a fresh 2056 is a 40-50hp increase. I still think a 2270 or 2316 is the ultimate way to go but I figure I could do a 2056 for a lot less and gain some experience.
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mattillac
post Apr 7 2005, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE (anthony @ Apr 7 2005, 03:27 PM)
McMark gave a few of us rides at the Napa BBQ get-together.

He has this exact combo - 2056, mild cam, Kit Carlsen FI. Compared to my higher mileage all original 2L, it felt like a screamer. He was chirping those Falkens in 2nd gear. The car pulled way harder than mine does. It was actually very inspiring because I have most of the parts to build up a 2nd 2056 engine.

I figure my all original engine is a little tired and probably putting out around 80hp so a fresh 2056 is a 40-50hp increase. I still think a 2270 or 2316 is the ultimate way to go but I figure I could do a 2056 for a lot less and gain some experience.

anthony,

thats what i like to hear. sounds like the 2056 makes the 914 more like a sports car than an econobox with handles (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

my friends '85 rx7 gsl-se with stock fi pushes about 130HP, so says the factory. that car is a blast to drive! a 914 with the same power output should be a similar ride, i think. i might have to put my 914 on a diet to get closer to the rx7's weight tho.
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Bleyseng
post Apr 7 2005, 06:13 PM
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like this


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mattillac
post Apr 7 2005, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Apr 7 2005, 04:13 PM)
like this

so, is it like this:

find extra fifth drive AND driven gear
remove third drive AND driven gear.
install the extra fifth drive AND driven gears "flipped" in place of the third drive and driven gears as illustrated?

gear ratios still elude my intelligence (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) . i need to take apart my tranny (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
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Jake Raby
post Apr 7 2005, 06:24 PM
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If you want to have seriously fun power just go straight to a 2270.

No loss of longevity, no loss of cooling, no loss of reliability and one hell of a lot faster, smoother and really gets attention. Hi Fi Guy gets 29 MPG with his RAT 2270 and it was my older version from 3 years ago!

You can literally gain 35-40 HP over a 2056 for just 2K difference in price.

30+ HP for 2K is so cheap its amazing..... Some guys pay me 2K for a 10HP gain in a race engine!

Tony's RAT engine is also 3 years old and even the 2056 has come a LONG way in 3 years under this roof!

Hell today I dynoed a 154 HP 1997cc engine!
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mattillac
post Apr 7 2005, 06:35 PM
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QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Apr 7 2005, 04:24 PM)
If you want to have seriously fun power just go straight to a 2270.

No loss of longevity, no loss of cooling, no loss of reliability and one hell of a lot faster, smoother and really gets attention. Hi Fi Guy gets 29 MPG with his RAT 2270 and it was my older version from 3 years ago!

You can literally gain 35-40 HP over a 2056 for just 2K difference in price.

30+ HP for 2K is so cheap its amazing..... Some guys pay me 2K for a 10HP gain in a race engine!

Tony's RAT engine is also 3 years old and even the 2056 has come a LONG way in 3 years under this roof!

Hell today I dynoed a 154 HP 1997cc engine!

trust me jake, i would love to have one of your 2270's. i've stared at the kits on your website for countless hours while at work (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif). but as far as i can tell, the cheapest 2270 kit you have with the options that i want would be around $5K. i can't do that right now.

although, i'm still thinking about just saving up for one of your 2056 kits, since it wouldn't be a whole lot more than me buying the parts a doin the rebuil myself. decisions decisions. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)
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MattR
post Apr 7 2005, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE (cha914 @ Apr 7 2005, 02:03 PM)
Matt,

I have a RAT 2056 that puts out 130 crank hp and 130tq on his dyno...its basically the same motor you want to build, slight port on 2.0 heads, split cam, lightened flywheel, 44 webers, and euro race header...

Its a kick, not crazy fast, but will keep up with most...but I can't really give a good comparison as I have never driven a stock 2.0L 914.

I did have to add an front mounted oil cooler to keep the temps down, but now they stay around 180 most the time...

Yours,

Tony

Sweet! It sounds like a carbon copy, except I have 40s. The motor is built, by the way. Now I just need a 914 to put it in (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

I would be stoked with 130 hp! Right now Im driving my 90 hp 912 around, so a stock 2.0 would be an improvement. Thanks for the heads up on the oil temp.
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cha914
post Apr 7 2005, 06:47 PM
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Jake built mine...I had already built one engine that I had problems with and was tired of dealing with engine issues...so after talking to Jake I saved up my pennies and paid him to do it...best money I have spent on the car...

I would suggest at least going with a kit from him, it will take the guess work out and you will have his support, which I can tell you is priceless...

good luck,

Tony
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MattR
post Apr 7 2005, 07:07 PM
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Yep, Jake helped me a bunch on my combo. I was/am operating on a budget, so having a builder assemble the engine wasnt really feasable. Some day though...
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mattillac
post Apr 8 2005, 01:29 PM
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(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon_bump.gif) i wanna know about the gear combo, pleeeeeeease! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/monkeydance.gif)
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phantom914
post Apr 8 2005, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Apr 7 2005, 04:13 PM)
like this

Uhh, isn't that 4th gear, not 3rd?



Andrew
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ArtechnikA
post Apr 8 2005, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE (mattillac @ Apr 8 2005, 02:29 PM)
i wanna know about the gear combo, pleeeeeeease!

QUOTE
so, is it like this:


yes, you have it right.

when we talk about "gears" we are really talking about "gearsets" (drive and driven).

(except for 2nd, which in our cars, 2nd is part of the mainshaft and not as easy to change, and definitely not possible to 'flip.')

go here:
Charlie Davis' Gear Ratio Page

it has all the possible ratios, their names, and their tooth counts.

have a look at the current 3rd gear: in a 914.4, that's an 'N' gearset, 1,261:1
look at a 4's 5th: ZD, .7097:1

when you exchange the drive for the driven cogs, you get the inverse of that: 1.409:1

that's a lot shorter than the original 1.261:1

note that in some competition rules, you get charged a LOT of points for non-stock gear ratios... read your rulebook...
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mattillac
post Apr 8 2005, 02:51 PM
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thanks for the info!
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