OT: wanna be Machinist ... Where to start?, and what equipment to look for? Options

[dmenche914]

A lathe big enough to do brakes, is not really small, and as a rule of thumb, I try to buy bigger than what is needed now, cause someday a bigger job will come along, so buy as large a lathe as you can. Used equipment can be worn, so before a purchase, get someone that knows what to inspect to go with you, a worn lathe is near worthless, as labor to re-furbish a real worn one is skyhigh, and there are cheap imports from China (with cheap quality often)

A 12 inch swing lathe would be a nice one I have a Clausing engine lathe, sweet full quickchange gear box, running in a transmission, even change while running, couldn't do that on my old lathe with hand changed gears.

At anyrate, 12" fits my VW brake drums just fine.

It was mentioned that "turning " can be done on a mill, actually use of a rotory table is not really turning, however if you mount the part in the spindle, and hold the tool on the table, you can "turn" on a mill.
(done it at a company that had no lathe, only a mill)Likewise, you can mill on a lathe (did that before I bought a mill) It involves buying an attachment or making one. The cutting tool goes in the lathe spindle, and the part on a mounting on an attachment to the cross slide, the attachment has a screw for verticle movement, cross slide gives horizontal, and then your milling on a lathe!

, a lathe is best for turning, and a mill for milling.

What you choose is dependant on what types of parts you figure you need to make.

If you get a lathe, you'll need a good bench grinder to make cutting tools, part of the fun! Generally you purchase end mills, and send them out to be re-sharpened (unless you have a special attachment on the grinder)


Good luck

[fin]

Due to the weight of big lathes/mills they are sometimes cheaper than the "hobby" sized lathes/mills. If you have the room, it may be the way to go.

What I have is a South Bend 9B with a 42 in. bed and a Atlas mini-mill. The Atlas is too small for V8 work and at it's limit for VW aircooled cases.

I am looking for a rockwell/clausing 85XX knee mill that has a 6 by 24 table. Weighs about 700 pounds and is a favorite of the hobby mill crowd. It has the floor space of a big drill press.

Take the tech school advise and go. money well spent. From there you can network and find the places that sell this type of thing. And you will learn what is a good machine and a bad one.

And buy a used copy of the Machinery Handbook. The older ones have Math tables that the newer ones do not have. And the newer ones have better CNC support. Pick your poison.

Good luck,

Fin

[cha914]

Wow...and I thought this thread was going to die off...

Thanks for all the advice above, looks like I have some more reading to do. I have seen the smithy machine before, but I am always leery of those several in one machines...has anyone every used one? How did they hold up?

I do have a fairly nice 1hp bench grinder with a belt sanding attachment, so making cutting tools shouldn't be a problem.

I guess the main thing coming up that has got me thinking about lathes and mills again is that I am starting to build up a dune buggy, and trying to make as much as I can from scratch. And while I can probably make most things with what I have, it would be nice to have a lathe/mill to cut threads and make brackets, adapters, etc, etc....

It seems like I can get a decent 10-12" lathe for in my price range, but haven't seen many mills in that range, a couple of you mentioned a mini mill, what size are you talking and what are they capable of? Oh and I agree with the 1hp motor, seems like thats the begining of the good power range.

Well, I am going to do some reading, and will probably ask a few more questions later today.

Thanks again,

Tony

[Mueller]

QUOTE

machines...has anyone every used one? How did they hold up?

I have an Shoptask 3-in-1 which I bought new about 7 years ago, upon getting it I had to take it apart to clean out the sand from the castings. When new, it had very limited Z range (up/down motion), I have since upgraded it to a new more ridged design that allows the head to get closer to the table and move further from it to get out of the way. I also changed it from acme screws to ballscrews and converted it to servo CNC, I can still operate it manually with the handles. I have never seen a Smitty up close and personal...what you can do is check out a few of the forums for hobby type machining and ask if anyone in your area has one that you can check out. Watch out for the forums that are owned by the machine manufacture, they are censored in their favor most of the time.

[ken914]

I am a big believer in CNC machining, even have machining technology patents in several different countries. The absolute best thing anyone can have is a good CNC mill! Very cool technology. Between software, education, training and machinery it takes a while and some money to get up to speed.

I grew up with a traditional hand crank mill. No digital read outs, nothing. Just crank and read. If you are careful you can make an amazing array of parts this way, it is how everything was made up until the CNC's got "afordable" enough to be in every commercial shop.

I agree with everyone else's comments about 1) go to a tech school and get some classes, and 2) buy a used mill (like a bridgeport) at some local auction or etc. You can check with your local industrial supply houses and ask if they know of any local companies that may have used surplus equipment.

One other idea is to check out this web site http://www.emachineshop.com/index.html They have a CAD program that you can download and then they will competitively bid your part to find a shop to make items for you. It is A LOT quicker and cheaper to do it this way if you are only doing a few parts. If you want to do it all yourself, then sign up for class!

Good luck and enjoy it!

Ken

[andys]

Tony,

Be aware that you will likely spend as much for the tools and tooling as for the machine itself. If you go used, you may get a bunch of stuff with it, so keep a keen eye on what a deal actually includes. When you start buying mill vises, collets, collet holders, mill cutters of all kinds and sizes, tool bits, boring bars, boring heads, parallels, 1-2-3 blocks, indicators, mic's, etc, etc, it will add up very quickly. For home shop use, high end machines are not necessary for their expense, but that's your call. If you go new, Kent and Sharp are among the better quality Chinese brands that are really quite good these days. Just don't go too small, as you're apt to find their limits pretty fast when doing car related stuff. At home, I have a Chinese copy Bridgeport, and a 13" LeBlond lathe. Between them, I can do most everything; if not, I've been managing R&D and tool & die shops for 25 years, so I've got connections for all kinds of outside services.

Andy

[airsix]

Tony,
If you are doing automotive work I don't think you'll be too happy with a mini-mill. It's for doing small stuff. I used mine to make the flanges for my turbo project from 5/8" mild steel plate and I felt I had pushed it to it's limits. I mostly use it for small-scale fabrication (models, my crazy invention ideas, pocketknives like in my blog). For that sort of work it's wonderful. You wouldn't want to try to flycut a head with it though.

-Ben M.

[URY914]

There are also some metalworking forums on the net. I have one on my fav's on my home PC. It is set up like 914Club. It is a bunch of old guys swapping lies and helping out newbies. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

I'll post it when I get home.

Paul

[Mueller]

Machining videos/DVDs:

Videos/DVDs on machining, you can buy

Videos/DVDs that you can rent
I have rented a few machining videos, sorta slow at times, but some good info.
Rudy is a legend in the home shop machining world

This might be the forum Paul is talking about: The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop BBS

A few other Porsche guys here as well

[URY914]

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/

Here ya go.
Have fun! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Paul

[scotty914]

if you want to get in to milling very cheaply from homier, they are slightly better than the HF and grizzly from what i have heard from a web site i am a member of.

here
is a mini mill for 200 bucks, i dont know any thing about it but it might be a good thing to break while you learn

here
is the one that a few people i know from another site use. its more money... 800 but they put it on sale every so often for 400. also as some of you know homier does tent sales, where you wont have to pay shipping

[smooth_eddy]

Hi Tony...

I just wanted to add a few electrical comments. Residential voltage is 120/240 volts single phase. Most industrial lathe applications use a 120/208 volt 3 phase or 480 volt 3 phase power supply. Be sure to check out the power requirements before you purchase anything. Also, look at what is available in your garage/shop electrical panel. Is there room in the panel for more equipment etc. Another point is you can get 3 phase power by using a variable frequency drive (VFD) from a single phase input. So with a residential 240 volt input, you can get an output that will drive your 3 phase equipment. VFD's have really come down in price over the years and may be just what you need if you find a good buy on a three phase lathe. For larger application (like a whole shop) you will need to generate your own 3 phase power. It can not be created with capacitors like I see posted in an earlier post.

If and when you buy and have power issues or questions send me a PM. Good luck, Eddy