VW logo, copyright???? Options

[dmenche914]

I just noticed, the WCC logo has the VW Porsche emblem in it. I know from a while back VW was going bonkers on use of its trademark VW logo, suing or threatening lawsuits unless users (abusers???) paid up. It hit the VW aftermarket industry hard, real horror stories. Companies that even used photos of real VW cars had to delete the logo's from the photos, clubs also were hit, as were websites.

Maybe they have laid off, maybe thay just haven't noticed.

I heard also that Porsche was going after trademark infringement also, but not to the degree that VW has, and we got both logos in the WCC logo!

Anyone hear of this being a problem?

[lagunero]

good point. I think we are small enough to get past the radar but who knows for sure. Didn't that logo belong to VW/Audi? so do we get a break or get double screwed?

[larryp]

If it is not too late, add to whatever materials before printing " 'VW' is a registered trademark of Volkswagen of America"

If the materials are already printed, I would not sweat it. You are not using the logo commercially, which is what sets their teeth on edge. I would be surprised if you even received a nastygram, and if you do BFD, since the use will not recur.

But if you are concerned, you can print up a bunch of little labels saying the above and stick them somewhere on the materials already in existence.

[TC/914]

It hasn't let up; it just got a little worse.

The second round of cease and desist orders have included the word "Bug" as well. The Bug House, The Rusty Bug, Bug City, and a few others were hit just a little while ago. I see that The Rusty Bug, is now Rusty Restorations (?) and their website is down.

I would have thought that, since the PUBLIC gave the name "Bug" to the car as a take-off on the word Beetle name that it might have slipped by. I guess that VW's issuing of The Sun Bug might have sealed the deal on the name, but still . . . kind of too bad that you can lay claim to a word that you didn't make up.

It's English, not Volkswagenish.

A lot of time and thought went into the current use/spelling/definition of that word, seems a shame that it has to be given up to a corporation.

[scotty b]

This is a subjectthat really gets me hot under the collar. We use the logos and names as a source of "pride" and promotion of the companies yet they want us to stop? It is free advertising and promotion of there products for crying out loud! Sure people are making $ off of stickers, t-shirts etc. but the corp. isn't making these products to sell to us, so what's the freekin problem. We do drive and werk on
Porsches and Volkswagen don't we? But we can't use the logo to promote events or clubs that appreciate the makes? I got my dander up when this happend and went out and took the Porsche badge off of my 924 (not that it deserves it anyway) VW is still a great company to me despite there a-holeness (?), but Porsche has completely left what Ferdinand started the company out as. Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday went by the wayside when SUV's became the new rage. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/flipa.gif) Porsche you are a disgrace to the name. Will I be sued for typing Porsche? Porsche Porsche Porsche Porsche

I'm going to go take a couple Kava Kava and a shot of Jose to calm down now (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif)

[rick 918-S]

I guess it's not "The Peoples Car" anymore. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif) I'm sure this originated in the balls of an attorney pool someplace. Some moron trying to justify his job, or move up the loser ladder. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) I mean comeon! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) "Bug"!! Ya right! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) How about insect! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif) OOOOoooo (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif) better not use that one! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[scotty b]

Maybe we should take all of the posts like this and send them to the "home office" of both corp's so they'll know how the LOYALISTS feel about them?

[Jake Raby]

Both companies are filled with cock sucker lawyers making a cut to sue people over the logos..

I have gotten hate mail from both VW and Porsche....

It cost Porsche the sale of a Cayenne!

What pisses me off is that WE ARE THE ONES PROMOTING THEIR new cars more than they are! When someone sees an old VW or Porsche they start recognizing more of the new ones and its all down hill for them from then on!

I used to Have a Porsche flag outside my shop till they sent me the hate mail..... Sending them letters and etc will do absolutely NO GOOD at all.

[nickg]

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Apr 8 2005, 06:35 AM)

Both companies are filled with cock sucker lawyers making a cut to sue people over the logos.. I have gotten hate mail from both VW and Porsche.... It cost Porsche the sale of a Cayenne! What pisses me off is that WE ARE THE ONES PROMOTING THEIR new cars more than they are! When someone sees an old VW or Porsche they start recognizing more of the new ones and its all down hill for them from then on! I used to Have a Porsche flag outside my shop till they sent me the hate mail..... Sending them letters and etc will do absolutely NO GOOD at all.

so to play devil's advocate here ...Jake how would you like somepone advertising as air cooled technology? is it different? not really considering the amount of fraud perpetrated against these companies. I will explain, you can go out and buy oem parts for vw's at most any import store right? look at the part closely, it has the vw emble and the part # molded in it, know why? it is the supplier that makes them for vw. this is a big issue in the parts world and it will bring lawyers calling. the problem starts there and then goes on to people advertising with the crests and the emblems...if you think vw is bad, porsche put a bunch of people out of buisness years ago, bmw and mercedes are on a crusade now and Ford is looking into this closly. the reason is pretty simple, how woulkd you feel as a franchised dealer seeing your parts(and yes the same exact parts) being sold retail for less than 1/2 of dealer cost? you'd be pissed...and they are too. the thought was initially that this rampant use of the various emblems was innocent, but then they started to get feedback about how it dilutes brand image....confuses customers about who is and isn't a dealer or if it is a genuine part or not. Car companies make a very high percentage from parts sales(arguably more than new cars sales). I know that the use of the word vw is ok, but in the emblematic version, you will get a letter from auburn hills eventually. same with mercedes, porsche and bmw. They are also concerned about lawsuits from idiots who see the logo and assume that the company has a stake in the advertiser of that logo, that was done a few years ago at waterfest whern an idiot sued vw because they got hurt and the vw logo was used in various promotions literature. I agree it kinda sucks they have to be that way though

[Howard]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

Try using a Disney character sometime and watch the fur fly. Some companies are cool with it. Mobil hopes every race car will have their Pegasus plastered somewhere, and they don't care who prints it.

It does get silly sometimes. Coke tried to stop Pepsi from mentioning 'Coca Cola' in their taste comparison ads. When my office published a car insurance rate comparison for the 10 top companies in California, State Farm sent me a letter to cease and desist, since they did not give me permission to use their trademarked name in my ads.

Notice the absence of '914world.com' in the WCC pages, hats, shirts, etc.?

[Joe Bob]

Well....you'll never see me buy a new VW or Porsche unless I win the friggin' Lotto.....so like I care.....I DO think it's stupid that club's that support people who own the stuff that they sell make it difficult to use likenesses and logos....

It's not good business sense....

[TC/914]

It's kind of comforting, in a way, to know that Porsche ran into the same sort of thing themselves way back when.

In 1955, they offered the 356 with fender badges carrying the 'Continental" script, in the same cursive style (more or less) as the Speedster or Carrerra script. When Ford found about it, they demanded that Porsche stop badging the cars as Continentals, as Ford had big plans to re-issue the Continental themselves for the following model year.

The genuine "Continental" 356 Porsches (verified by the VINs) are worth a bit more now because of the small production run.

Now Ford's going after the Cobra replica manufactures, and Porsche is going after everyone else.

There's no getting away from it, I guess.

[Jake Raby]

I think a bunch of the issues come from lawyers that see an opportunity for making their cut and talking the logo holder into doing more with it...

In the case of VW the main law group caused a ton of the problems.... Those guys were pure jerks and totally money hungry pukes.

I understand protecting rights on trademarks and etc but for gods sake don't take the brunt of it out on those that worship the very vehicle that you produce!

Thats just plain rude and inconsiderate.... I don't see myself going into producing a friggin 996 or Cayenne next week so what threat does my enthusiast based business pose on Porsche?? Not a damn bit.

[lapuwali]

I've said this before, but it bears repeating. Don't blame VW or Porsche or Harley, or anyone else who's sent lawyer letters to their own owner's clubs or restoration shops. Blame the lawmakers. US copyright and trademark law FORCES the holders of the trademarks to issue such defenses, or they lose the right to the trademark. Each and every single use of a trademark has to be official or licensed. If someone else uses a trademark w/o permission, and the holder of the trademark ignores it, the holder can lose control of the trademark.

It all sounds very silly, and it is, but it's not the fault of the companies or their lawyers. If they want to retain any control at all over their trademarks, they have to do this kind of thing. The law isn't going to change anytime soon, as it's guaranteed employment for lawyers.

[Jake Raby]

Damn,
That is VERY dumb, but understandable..

It reminds me of an old law regarding fences being property boundaries...

A few years ago my neighbor built a barbed wire fence about 100 feet off the property line.....

After 7 years that fence became the new legal property line and basically the guy lost almost 20 acres of property because of it..... The real bastard was the neighboring land owner that was low down enough to take the damn property from him!

It was no amazement when 40 head of the pricks cattle ended up being poisoned......

Its really dumb and makes me want to move to some deserted island!

[Joe Bob]

QUOTE (TC/914 @ Apr 8 2005, 11:42 AM)

It's kind of comforting, in a way, to know that Porsche ran into the same sort of thing themselves way back when. In 1955, they offered the 356 with fender badges carrying the 'Continental" script, in the same cursive style (more or less) as the Speedster or Carrerra script. When Ford found about it, they demanded that Porsche stop badging the cars as Continentals, as Ford had big plans to re-issue the Continental themselves for the following model year. The genuine "Continental" 356 Porsches (verified by the VINs) are worth a bit more now because of the small production run. Now Ford's going after the Cobra replica manufactures, and Porsche is going after everyone else. There's no getting away from it, I guess.

Same with the 911...origianlly was gonna be a 901....then Peugot bitched. Old 911 part number still have 901 serial numbers....as do the 914 trans.....

[aircooledboy]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Apr 8 2005, 02:04 PM)

US copyright and trademark law FORCES the holders of the trademarks to issue such defenses, or they lose the right to the trademark. Each and every single use of a trademark has to be official or licensed. If someone else uses a trademark w/o permission, and the holder of the trademark ignores it, the holder can lose control of the trademark.

Bingo. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/happy11.gif)

If you go to the time and trouble to establish a tradename or trademark, and you later become aware that it is being used by others, but you do nothing to stop them, you lose the right to claim the exclusive use of that name or mark. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Apr 8 2005, 12:37 PM)

Damn, That is VERY dumb, but understandable..

It can be very much worse. Plenty of people who've used their own names in their trademarks have lost the trademark, and thus lost control over the use of their own name! Imagine if someone else started putting "Jake Raby" on their engines. You could sue them, but unless you had gone through all of the correct motions to a trademark on your name and defended that mark, you'd probably lose the suit.

[grantsfo]

I think Monster Cable is the best example of a company that has gone overboard its identity copyright lawsuits. I love how some of the little guys have turned Monsters tactics against them.

http://www.monstergreed.com/Index%20with%2...0about%20MC.htm

The MadMartian case and Monster Vintage are too classic examples of small guys fighting back and winning.

VW's pursuit of businesses who use Bug is very similar to what Monster is doing.

[dmenche914]

Know we are blaming the law for the problem, No I put the blame right back on lawyers. They see the law, and abuse it. If if it is the laws fault, guess who made the law? Lawyers.

True, if VW did not go after an off shore company making cars with the VW logo on it, and calling it a Bug they would in effect loose identification of the logo, and name, that's just common sense. People would no longer associate the VW logo and the Bug car with VW or Germany.

The crazy part is when VW goes after a small shop that has a VW logo in the shop sign, or the name Bug.

What is wrong is two counts:

1. The use of the VW logo or Bug in a shop name or sign that deals in restoration or dune buggies or what ever does not take away VW's use of their logo as would the example of a car company producing cars with fake VW logos or names. Going after the companies, or even clubs that simply use the name or logo for identification with that car, the true VW and Bug, not production of the car is simply wrong cause the use of the trademarked name is not a use that has any thing to do with VW's business. If anything, a fine print statement like " not associated with VW of Germany " should suffice if there could be any doubt in the publics mind that there is a true bussiness relation with VW and the logo or name user.

2. I am afraid it is just too %$&(*)damn late for VW too act, for them to go after companies that used the word BUG for thrity years, seems that VW had already lost sole right to that name. If VW had been agressive thirty years ago, they would have a better claim on the name, but they failed to do anything for thirty years, and now want lawsuits. Roll Royce has always been agressive with use of their trademarks, even going after ads for ads that have a picture of a rolls in the background, they shut them down fast, and have always done so. In Rolls Royces case, they I think should countinue to have sole rights as long as they countinue to defend their trademarks, not so for VW they should lose for failure too act decades ago.


No excuse for VW's current tactics, they are going after the wrong crowd for the most part, and they are too late, they have lost sole rights in some cases.

It is a shame., bleepin' lawyers.