Which Tires to Use?, 74 2.0 Restoration Options

[gcrotvik]

I am trying to determine which is the best tire to use on my 74 2.0 concours restoration. I have read the lengthy Tires & Wheels thread. I am looking for the tire that would have been provided from the factory for original delivery in the states. I understand that there is no "correct" HR tire provided today for many reasons (the correct Michelin is tube-type and should be tubeless, Vredstein's weren’t OE US supplied tires, etc.). So, from a parade concours perspective, which of the 3 tires listed below are the "most correct"? I'm leaning towards the Michelin's but I'm not sure if they can be installed on the 2.0 Fuchs alloy rims?

MICHELIN XAS 165HR15
Tube Type

PIRELLI CA67
165HR15 Pirelli Cinturato CA67
Tubeless?

VREDSTIEN SPRINT CLASSIC 165HR15
Tubeless

Opinions?

Greg

[Tom_T]

Hi Greg,

Yes they can all be mounted on the Fuchs 2L wheels - I'd personally checked that with Lucas Tires a few years back, but as to the rest....

First - where do you plan on competing?

If PCA - then originality is not judged in our Zone 8 (SoCal/Central CA, So NV, AZ), & pretty much in all the other PCA Zones AFAIK (I'm not aware of any Zone which does). You should check your local PCA Zone CdE Rules specifically.

However, at national PCA Parade, originality can be judged, &/or used as a tie-breaker, &/or used by a competitor on a Challenge to try to upset a higher scored car. You should read the current Parade CdE rules on the main PCA website (you may have to email the Concours char a couple of months in advance of the Parade you're entered to get the latest update).

Either Pirelli or Michelin will pass PCA Parade muster, as may the Vredsteins or Blockley (see below). That said, IIRC I've seen Parade winners sporting all sorts of non-period tires, including the Vreds. So it depends on the luck of the draw there.

I've been judging in our Z8 Concours for 6 years, & we only look at prepartion, detailing, quality of paint & fitment, etc. I know even several 356-ers who are running the Vredsteins for Zone competition, & some of them also have other period correct tires changed out for Parade.

.
If AACA or other non-PCA CdEs - then look at their rules specifically.

While the judges for those judges won't know everything on originality for all cars which they're judging (barring the luck of the draw to have a 914er judge), but they all will probably be familiar with period tires for most cars - & most or all will pick up that Vreds are modern tires, even if widely used in the Brit & Euro & Japanese classic sports car community.

.
If for yourself - you'll have to judge what you feel makes you happy. You could run a set of far more cost effective Vredsteins for road use & PCA locally, & save the set of XAS of Pirellis on the best wheels set for shows only (changed on the grounds or for roll-onto same).

.

As for which are more correct 165HR15 (/80) tires for 914-2.0s:

Vreds are a modern retro tire, with a tread pattern closer to the 60's-70's tires of the day found on Brit cars & UK/Euro sedans/coupes IMHO.

First, understand that both the Pirelli & Michelin repros are made with modern rubber compounds & belt materials/construction - not period rubber/etc. - in the classic tread patterns & sidewall markings (from the original molds as far as I know).

The MIchielin XAS for 2.0 - & XZX for 1.7 & 1.8 - 914s are dead on for the molds & tread pattern, & were found on the 914-2.0's.

The Pirelli Cinturato CA67s were also fitted at the factory duirng the 8/72-12/75 production run of the 73-76 MY 914-2.0s AFAIK, but less so than the Dunlop, Michelin & Continental tires.

I think that the XAS is the slightly then more modern tire than the CA67, the latter of which was well in advance design-wise of its competitors when it was released a few years before the XZX & XAS.

All of the appropriate sizes & types of tires made by Dunlop, Michelin, Continental & Pirelli tires were all used by the factory on 911, 912, 912E, 930 & 914-6/914/4 cars from mid-1969 - mid-1976 on 70-76 MY cars. It's also my understanding that Semperits were also used by the factory on our 914s, if primarily in Europe/UK, with some known to me personally to be sold here in the USA on a few 914s new.

However, neither/none of the others were the most common tire fitted at the factory from what I know, as that was the now NLA Dunlop SP57 tires.

The Semperit M401/501 "Dog-Bone" Tread Pattern tires sold on 914s & as replacement tires were similar looking to the SP57s - but they got 40,000 miles off a tire with only an imperceptibly less traction & cornering performance, vs. 10-15000 off the Dunlop twins. I still have the `70's R&T & MT & C&D Tire Test Reports from the 70's with these findings, somewhere in my stash!

Note that the current Blockley 16rHR15 sold by Lucas Tires )link below) is essentially a repop of the Dunlop SP57 &/or Semperit M401/501 "Dog-Bone" Tread Pattern - so they look period correct - if not a period tire maker. They are also a modern Tubeless tire - vs. the Michelin & Pirelli choices.

Also note that the 185/70VR15 was a factory option tire for all 914-6/914/4 cars, as well as being a common change-out tire at the dealers & as a period correct owner change-out later - often done by the AXers & Racers back then.

As of what's available today for Concoursing, I'd probably go with either the XAS or Blockley myself, as I was less impressed with the handling of the Pirelli CA67's for the guys whom I knew who had them on their 914s back in the day! If XAS are now NLA, then Pirelli CA67 would be the next best period correct mfgr. in size, but I'd probably push to Blockley myself in that case.

IMHO, the Blockley will LOOK most correct in tread design & being tubeless for any setting - to what we saw in the pix from the R&T, MT & C&D road tests of the 914-2.0s of the 1970s - fro all but not having the "Dunlop SP57" & lower HR speed rating imprinted on the sidewall upon closer inspection (the Blockley is 165VR15 tubeless - see link at the bottom).

But the ultimate choice - & budget - is yours alone.

Also, check with your local tire shop who will mount them for you if the tubes will be required on the factory "J" tubeless type wheels that you'll be using - or if Wiedeman Wheels or Al Reed are doing the wheels' resto for you - just have them mount & balance so they don't get bugggered up by a 3rd party tire shop.

You'll probably get a better price from Lucas Tires in Long Beach CA - than from Coker/etc. - & they can get the XAS if not shown on their page currently, from their UK sibling Longstone Tires (or any others - just ask). They can also advise on tubes or not.

http://www.lucasclassictires.com/165R15_c70.htm

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/search
- then select 165 x 15 in the search window at top right

FYI - here's the link below the Blockley 165VR15 (/80) at the link - to compare with pix of the Dunlop SP57 tread at the O&H Tires & Wheels thread -

http://www.lucasclassictires.com/165VR15-B...Radial-504p.htm

Hope this helps.

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[dlkawashima]

You might also consider the Pirelli CN36. I recall it being a good all around tire back in the day. Unfortunately, it's not an H rated tire (it's V rated) but otherwise it's period correct.

[Frankvw]

I like the Vredestein Sprint Classics, they are commonly used in Holand (and Europe) in the VW scene, modern tire with classic look, see pic attached. It is a 155 vredestein classic sprint mounted on the front wheel of a lowered bug, but you get the idea.
But there are many tires and types. Vredestein is a Dutch company (from origin) so that is a extra reason for me to like them I guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[gcrotvik]

Thank you all for the input. Tom, I really think I like the Blockley tires. Great suggestion and feedback. Now, I just need to get my car ready for tires. A long way to go. My 6 conversion is consuming my time these days.

[PancakePorsche]

+1 for Vredestein sprint classics. Period correct tread pattern, correct diameter, and good overall compliance but not cheap. No regrets what so ever.

[Dougal Cawley]

Hmm

there are quite a few points i should make here
1/ The Vredestein looks absolutely nothing like a period tyre.
2/ there are a few things that will be dealt with on this independent article about classic tyres for Porsche http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/classic-porsche-tyres
3/ Pirelli now make a V rated 165VR15 Cinturato CN36 N4 http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/165vr...to-cn36-n4.html the N4 is Porsche homologation. The CN36 came out in 1968
4/ Our Classsic Porsche tyres page above also has a Porsche fitment guide for their classic models
5/ Porsche also recommend the 185/70WR15 Cinturato CN36 N4 http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/185-7...to-cn36-n4.html
6/ The 165HR15 Michelin XAS http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/165hr...chelin-xas.html came out in 1965

[Dougal Cawley]

I aught to be a bit completely up front.

i am writing from Longstone Tyres