sorta OT 97' legacy outback. honeymoon over, carbon buildup on #4 exhaust valve... Options

[rhodyguy]

holding the valve open. car ran great, then like shit. FAST! posting this here as subby swaps are the rage and some of you might not know about this unknown, to me, common issue.

check engine light came on solid and quickly went to flashing. free scan at flaps showed an issue with cyl #4 and it could have been a plug, wire, coil pack, or something else. i didn't want to take the swap out one item at a time route and paid for further diagnosis. result was the guide hadn't started to fall but the seal has failed and carbon is holding the valve open with virtually no comp on #4. the fix is far beyond my subaru mechanical skills. recommended...pull engine, pull head (and all that goes with it). while they're in there do the timing belt, tensioner, water pump (i get this) but also do the drivers side head :headband:. this is going to be VERY expensive if i take this route. unjustifiably expensive which bugs me as it's a solid chassis and i like the car.

do any of the "chemical" tricks really work? sea foam or any of the other touted methods?

i do not want car payments or to buy ANOTHER used car. i'll go to a one daily driver household first and adjust life style accordingly. it's not really the money. well, a bit, but getting the dough together affects other aspects tax related and heath ins coverage $.

[Chris H.]

Bummer.

Don't know about chemical fixes, but if it ends up being major surgery what you need is another engine. Unless you are really good at fixing engine stuff it's not worth the money. Sorta like losing a 1.8l type 4 about 10 years ago. Harvest the good parts and find another one. Plenty of cheap ones out there. It's easy to pull. Didn't conedodger say he had a 2.5 at his place? Otherwise Craigslist. Maybe Jamie knows a northwest source.

[rhodyguy]

Already glanced at local Craig's list offerings. Not ready, GOING, to roll the dice on a unknown used engine. After reading Kent's comment on JDM engines I'm really hesitant. You nailed it on the really good fixing engine comment. All in, outsourcing the work, is not cost effective for a 19 yo car I paid 3k for. In all likelihood I'll just unload the car for whatever I can get for it. The hope light gets dimmer by the hour.

[zipedadoo]

GM makes a top engine cleaner that works well. You don't put it in the fuel tank though. You have to rev the engine and put the cleaner into the intake via a vacuum hose. There are videos on youtube of how to do it. Be sure to change your oil afterwards.

[rhodyguy]

Thanks! an option I'm willing to try. Much like the sea foam on the oil change.

[Andyrew]

Water/seafoam will HELP and its worth a shot if you can keep it running. Remove your cats or your downpipe prior to using it though as you will clog them up.

My suggestion. Pay someone to fix it or try fixing it yourself.

If it still drives then make a cheap water injection setup and trigger it to run on a switch. hook the switch up to run on throttle only. This will clear up your carbon and keep it clear.

[76-914]

Back in the day we used to pour a qt. of trans fluid thru the carb while running the engine above 2000rpm. The environmental police would kill you nowadays. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
I'm still going to buy a JDM and I've got my eye on one. Just read the ratings on the JDM locations until you find on with a 100% satisfaction rating. Then peruse all of the comments posted on that particular shop to filter out any BS. The NA 4 bangers usually go for $600 - $800 bucks. This IS the fastest and most economical method if a cleaning agent doesn't help.
From what I've read you post Kevin I would say you could do the top rebuild yourself easily. The timing chain cover (front and rear) have almost 100 allen head bolts but come out quickly with an 18v cordless. The water pump is quick w/ only four bolts but they almost never fail in the 1st 300K miles! Any good mechanic will want to do both heads however as a shade tree mechanic you can do whatever you'd like. Timing belts, yes as 95% of Subaru motors are interference type. Tensioners run $67 to $97 each. If you didn't R&R the vasser pump you can still expect to spend around $400 in parts alone not to mention head work. If you go JDM you will need to carry over a few external items from the OEM motor to the JDM motor. PM me if I can be of any assistance Kevin. Kent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[ConeDodger]

I never poured ATF down a carb like Kent, but my Dad and Grandfather swore by Seafoam down the carb and the last quart you add before your next oil change should be ATF. ATF is just highly detergent oil so it supposedly cleans things up.
Now, that said, new engines run much cleaner than the small block Chevies I grew up with. My Dad told me that these chemicals weren't fixes. They were prevention. Much like seeing the Doc for a physical rather than for a heart attack.
I doubt chemicals will fix the problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[rhodyguy]

Thanks Kent I was hoping you'd reply. There's a vast dif in JDM engine pricing compared to where you live.

The engine cleaning offerings by both mopar and gm get pretty good reviews. Superior to the sea foam in testing comparisons, but who the hell knows for sure. Of course, when I mentioned trying a chem method the shop I used poo pooed that idea straight away.

I'm not in a big rush over the legacy situation but want to exhaust (ha (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) all my options. As long as I can still joke about it I'm not going postal.

[rhodyguy]

Thanks guys. Perhaps there's a 6 in my future. But I doubt it. Seriously.

[DBCooper]

To provide some perspective the work and parts you need are exactly the same as what would be required to replace head gaskets. That's something pretty common with Subarus so I'd think there might be a Subaru specialist somewhere near you who could do it quickly and reasonably. I've done it myself, it's really straightforward and not a huge job, and once done you're good for another couple of hundred thousand miles. More or less. Check prices, it might not be as bad as you think.

By the way five years ago I put WTB ad on Craigslist and bought a nice 2.2 for $150. It had came out in a swap and had been under the guy's bench and in the way for a couple of years, he saw the ad, remembered it, and just wanted it gone. It went into my son's bug, was great, even ended up being turbocharged. Give it a shot, you never know.

[Chris H.]

By the way five years ago I put WTB ad on Craigslist and bought a nice 2.2 for $150. It had came out in a swap and had been under the guy's bench and in the way for a couple of years, he saw the ad, remembered it, and just wanted it gone. It went into my son's bug, was great, even ended up being turbocharged. Give it a shot, you never know.

^^^^ This is what I hope you find if you can't get your engine straightened out reasonably. Might have to sit tight for a while but something will come along.

[rhodyguy]

So you guys understand the picture better.

The quote was $1.4k ish. That's r&r the engine, remove heads and hand me the heads for work. Not to include timing belt package or any head work. Plus 9.68% sales tax. You just know there's going to be at least 1 'while you're in there'. Short stick poke to clear 2k.

[championgt1]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Bummer Kevin. It is really a nice clean car. Let me know if I can be of any help!

[rhodyguy]

Thanks jack. Forgot you Chris.

[Andyrew]

If you need a ride to get you by get an old saturn SL or SC. Tons out there and they are not abused or neglected near as bad as the jap cars. Very similar reliability.

[rhodyguy]

But they can't carry 16' TGI floor joists. Or 8' 2x stock. Or luan door slabs and pre-hung doors strapped to the roof rack. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[mbseto]

I tend to keep cars too long. What I've learned is for a car like this, you can almost surely find a used car that will be a better deal than repairing this one. Outside of sentimental considerations. Just curious, how many miles have you been able to get out of it so far for that $3k?

[rhodyguy]

I don't commute but I've had 3+years of trouble free ownership. Best and most comfortable truck I've ever owned. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) hauled remodel demo, building materials, filled it with 914 swap meet parts, a few road trips. First automatic I've ever owned too. 0 emotional attachment. Court today appealing a ticket. I'll swing by one of the local Subaru 'go to' independent shops on the way home and see what they have to say. Maybe a Chevy dealer and see if they have the top engine cleaner. Last gasp will be what Jeff Hines calls an 'Italian tuneup'.

I know at least one of the valve stem seals is spent. Prob contributes to why that valve is fouled so severely. Fixing the car or spending more than the fix to replace it with a different unknown possible money pit is the big mental debate.

[ThePaintedMan]

Kev,
Know any kids in the neighborhood who could do the work for you while you instruct? It really is quite simple.