Engmans inner long stiffening kit, Or, Joe Buckle learns to weld Options

[Trekkor]

The rear piece is attatched to a double walled section so the welds won't show.

The car is much more stable and predictable. Especially in the turns.

KT

[charlesmac]

This is definately on my list of "to do's"
But i got a question; after this kit is installed, would it even be necessary for the outer long kit to be added? I might could see it if it was a track only car with huge slicks and super stiff suspension. But for a street mostly car with maybe some auto-x, what other stiffening would i need. I'm thinking maybe 180# springs in the back, stock torsion bars, big front bar,(adjustable of course), yellow koni's, prolly stock rear bar, 16X7's or 16x8's, depending on how much i pound out my fenders. It's all still in the planning process, just thinking out loud. thanks

charles

[SpecialK]

I was checking out the installation of the stiffener's, and all I could think is that bonding those babies in would be the way to go.

The way I see it, when you weld on the stiffeners you're essentially making little attach points at the rosette welds (and the periphery), but if you bonded the stiffener to the longs it would be a much stronger/stiffer assembly since there would be 100% adhesion between the two parts, not just at the welds.

I'll explain later, gotta go to work! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (Special_K @ Apr 11 2005, 11:57 AM)

I was checking out the installation of the stiffener's, and all I could think is that bonding those babies in would be the way to go. The way I see it, when you weld on the stiffeners you're essentially making little attach points at the rosette welds (and the periphery), but if you bonded the stiffener to the longs it would be a much stronger/stiffer assembly since there would be 100% adhesion between the two parts, not just at the welds. I'll explain later, gotta go to work! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

do both!

[Engman]

As an M.E. there is no doubt that bonding these in would be the way to go. That being said you would have to have the ability and materials to do this properly. There are probably only a few people on this board that have both the knowledge, materials and ability to do it at all.

I have always been a fan of structural adhesives. Used them extensively when I was working for a company that made headlights. But the prep work and clamping of this to the body are not something I am willing to try to do. You really have to KNOW how to do this and have some experience to do it right.

For me the welding is the most reliable reproduceable way to do this.

QUOTE

But i got a question; after this kit is installed, would it even be necessary for the outer long kit to be added? I might could see it if it was a track only car with huge slicks and super stiff suspension. But for a street mostly car with maybe some auto-x, what other stiffening would i need.

If you have intact longs - nothing else. The only other area is where the GT kit is put. I am not a fan of this kit. I hope to be able to offer something better later this year. I am working on a few ideas now, but time is at a premiun due to work demands.

And the boxed trailing arm stiffening kit, while it does stiffen the arm, can cause the mount ears to break instead of the trailing arm bending - a much more expensive repair.



M

[SpecialK]

QUOTE (Engman @ Apr 11 2005, 03:01 PM)

As an M.E. there is no doubt that bonding these in would be the way to go. That being said you would have to have the ability and materials to do this properly. There are probably only a few people on this board that have both the knowledge, materials and ability to do it at all. I have always been a fan of structural adhesives. Used them extensively when I was working for a company that made headlights. But the prep work and clamping of this to the body are not something I am willing to try to do. You really have to KNOW how to do this and have some experience to do it right.

Actually Mark, the hole pattern already in the stiffener is what made me think of bonding in the first place, it would be perfect for using 1/4" SS cherry-lok rivets (pop rivets that the mandrel stays in it when "popped"), and they're only about $.03 each.

The only special tools required would be a set of 1/4" cleco buttons (most autobody shops carry them) to hold the stiffeners in place while drilling. Maybe not "required", but it would sure make the job easier, and improve the quality of the holes/bond.

Prep the longs as you would for welding (grind to bare metal)

Using you stiffener as a pattern (after trim and hammer to fit), drill the holes in the longs and back panel (cleco's to hold it in place), remove the stiffeners, deburr the holes, thoroughly clean the stiffeners and longs/back, metal-ready/ospho the bare metal, trowel on some Hysol EA-9430 structural adhesive (aircraft spruce sells kits) using a notched trowel (fine toothed, like for bathroom wall tile), slap the stiffeners on and pop-rivet (cherry-lok) the stiffeners back into place. The fasteners would hold the stiffener in place during the adhesive cure, plus 1/4" SS cherry-loks (tension head) have a tensile strength of 2250 lbs. each. Scrape off the excess adhesive as you go (if done correctly you should have "squeeze-out" around the edges of the stiffener), and go have a couple/few beers while it cures. It would be ROCK SOLID when cured, and there would be no worry of rust developing between the stiffener and long down the road.

PS - the Cherry-loks also have a relatively flat head, so protrusion wouldn't be an issue.

[SpecialK]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

Sh*t.....now I'm thinkin' of making some CG and kevlar stiffeners (materials already onhand for the roof project) . Kevlar on the outer layers to keep the CG daggers at bay in the event of a side impact.......but I'm guessin' splinters in your ass would be the least of your worries in such a scenario (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)

About 6-7 layers of CF layed out right would be super light, and stiff as wedding day d*ck!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)