Reliability and 33 Years of Experience, Not looking good. Options

[Series9]

As the owner of an indy VAP shop, I have to say things are not looking good.

I started in VWs with my grandfather's '71 Super Beetle when I was 14. I would enthusiastically tell everyone (for a very long time) that German engineering was the way to go.

Fast forward 33 years. What I say now: "Do NOT buy any VAP built after 1998." Even before 1998, I now realize that drivers of American and Asian cars have generally had a more reliable experience.

My Vanagon is on it's third engine in ten years, my Jetta requires attention at least twice a month, my 914 (before it became the RS) required an engine replacement in the five years I owned it as a /4.......etc, etc.

I'm basically making money on the flaws of German engineering. Yes, it tends to be more precise than the others. BUT, that precision comes at a cost. Small flaws amplify themselves in such a way that the whole system will stop working harmoniously long before other manufacturer's vehicles.

What's my most reliable vehicle/mile/dollar/hour of maintenance? 2006 Ford F250 6.0 Diesel (and that truck has the "unreliable" 6.0).

If someone came to me tonight and said "you have to drive to Washington state and leave right now", I would get right in the Ford and not worry one second about making it there and back.

If I had to take the Vanagon or the Jetta, I would be highly stressed. Both cars are great, but great for within 100 miles.

That's it. I wanted it off my chest.

My VAP specialty will continue at S9, but I may be driving something else..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[r_towle]

Dude,

This is like fight club here.....
never supposed to talk about it.

rich

[76-914]

Here's something else to chew on, Joe. A car's reputation has a lot to do with it's cost. People will talk down their cheaper vehicle in a second where as a guy that spent a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) load on a car will not be as likely to speak ill of that car. Thereby promoting further sales of a problem car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) I speak from experience. It's easy to admit to a hundred dollar mistake but no one wants to talk about their $75K mistake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[Valy]

Make sure the German cars you buy were build in Germany and not US/Mexico/Brasil/Spain.
There is a huge difference between the factories in terms of quality.

[Series9]

Here's something else to chew on, Joe. A car's reputation has a lot to do with it's cost. People will talk down their cheaper vehicle in a second where as a guy that spent a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) load on a car will not be as likely to speak ill of that car. Thereby promoting further sales of a problem car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) I speak from experience. It's easy to admit to a hundred dollar mistake but no one wants to talk about their $75K mistake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

The model of F250 I have is an absolute base model, except for the diesel engine. That truck is $43k new right now.

To me, that's getting pretty close to apples:apples.

[Series9]

Make sure the German cars you buy were build in Germany and not US/Mexico/Brasil/Spain.
There is a huge difference between the factories in terms of quality.

Weren't all 996s built at Zuffenhausen? If so, your point is void.

[Series9]

As far as I'm aware(for the US market), all 4cyl A3/MK3 VWs were built in Mexico and there is a HUGE difference in quality between those cars and the A4/MK4 VWs.

That means VW is the problem, not Mexico.

[76-914]

Here's something else to chew on, Joe. A car's reputation has a lot to do with it's cost. People will talk down their cheaper vehicle in a second where as a guy that spent a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) load on a car will not be as likely to speak ill of that car. Thereby promoting further sales of a problem car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) I speak from experience. It's easy to admit to a hundred dollar mistake but no one wants to talk about their $75K mistake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

The model of F250 I have is an absolute base model, except for the diesel engine. That truck is $43k new right now.

To me, that's getting pretty close to apples:apples.

I sold a 2yo Mercedes and replaced it with a Nissan King Cab. Never felt better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mark Henry]

My wife's bare bones Hyundai Accent is what the old Beetle, Rabbit, 1st/2nd gen Golf used to be. A reliable, no frills A to B car.

My buddy owns a VW/Audi independent shop, in confidence he'll tell me they are junk compared to before, but they have made him good coin. He always told me diesel's were a joke, didn't matter how good milage you got, you would never recoup the buy in cost.
He also said the 80's diesel engines were excellent, too good in fact. In the 90's the reliability all went to shit and he believes it was on purpose.

BTW Joe he too drives a Pickup truck.


Personally my '99 Passat which, was a basically Audi A4, is the last new VW I'll ever own.
I lost count of how many times I replaced the front suspension.

[Series9]

My wife's bare bones Hyundai Accent is what the old Beetle, Rabbit, 1st/2nd gen Golf used to be. A reliable, no frills A to B car.

My buddy owns a VW/Audi independent shop, in confidence he'll tell me they are junk compared to before, but they have made him good coin. He always told me diesel's were a joke, didn't matter how good milage you got, you would never recoup the buy in cost.
He also said the 80's diesel engines were excellent, too good in fact. In the 90's the reliability all went to shit and he believes it was on purpose.

BTW Joe he too drives a Pickup truck.


Personally my '99 Passat which, was a basically Audi A4, is the last new VW I'll ever own.
I lost count of how many times I replaced the front suspension.

Don't stab me with a squirrel, but a Passat is a B4. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Same, same. Just parallel chassis. The "4" is the era.

[Dion]

Agree somewhat. I still own my '92 Mexican built Golf GTi. Fun little gas sipper.
Many autocrosses under its belt. Regular maintenance always key. Not deferred.
However my brand new '02 Audi A6 Avant kept eating catalytic converters.
Forward to 2009 the motor blows white smoke out the back with my wife at the wheel.
Car never abused. Turns out cracked block. It was dumping coolant out the exhaust
most of the time. Hence short lived catalysts. Audi dealer offered no help, mind you car
just turned 52,000 miles. Audi North America also turned a blind eye. First question
from them? "Didn't you buy the extended warranty?" Well didn't think I had too
since you built kickass LeMans cars! That's what made me purchase a Audi in the first place. I won't be buying any Audi anytime soon. Shame as I like their looks but
Dealerships personnel need help.

[914_teener]

I still have my 94 GMC C1500 extended cab truck.

It is by far the least expensive vechicle to operate in terms of cost of part..operation...ect.

It has it's problems with plastic and all.... but the TBI 5.7 is great.

I can't afford to replace it at 45+k.

[rhodyguy]

The 85' Jetta my wife owned, from new, when I met her was a fantastic car. Not made south of the border. When it went away, over 250k, it had been near flawless. Org engine, transmission, even the clutch. Wear items and it barely used the equivalent of a 1/2 qt of oil between changes. My ex bought a 'south of the border' golf and it was literally falling apart within 2 years.

They have to design them to fail so the service $ rolls in. Just like appliances.

[0396]

This brings up a sore subject with me. As for a DD I've always bought Hondas, but my last experience with Honda's quality went too. My brand new Civic's steering wheel was 1/4 off center. I only had 50 miles on the car. The dealer jump in and says, we will correct it. Needless to say, as I drove out, the steering wheel was still off. When I asked about it, they said it's with in spec , even if its 1/4 inch off center. I called Hondo Corp, their reply was Dealer is correct. ... over the years, I've bought 6 Hondas...so what am I saying, most of the automobile industry has gone down hill! On another note, my Audi S/4 needed a timing chain...local dealer quoted my 18k( its not a 993 rebuild)...for the job like new water pump, r&r all 4 shocks, install the 8 spark plugs that I will supply tooo! My Porsche is simply a hobby. If I had to depend on it as a DD, ....I don't think I will opt for a new one as one will have to also have a computer to diagnosed any errors that pop up now....oh well, it's just a hobby

[Series9]

I'm thinking about putting a sign on the back of my truck that says: "If you have a VW, Audi or Porsche made before 1998, bring it to me. If you have a later one, sell it NOW, or I can help you part it out later."



Look on your local Craigslist for American diesel trucks. Look at how many of them have over 350,000 miles. Then, do the same search for VAP cars with 350,000 miles.

What do you find?

The answer is several American diesels in every search and absolutely ZERO German cars.



I have a current Beetle TDI customer who's last mechanic told her "this engine will long outlast the whole of the rest of the car". When she asked me if I thought that comment was correct, I said "100%".

[GeorgeRud]

A longtime friend of mine that owns a respected repair shop said it best - The best part of the new Porsches is the test drive!

I love the looks and engineering, but wouldn't want one that's out of warrantee and won't spend the money for a new one. However, I'd be more than happy to trust my 1970 914-6 for a cross country drive, even after all these years.

[Racer]

Sorry to hear about the issues. Since we are all sharing:

1988 Golf GT. From 1989-1996. Ran for 130,000 miles. Exhaust every 2 years (like clockwork).. New Transmission at 50K miles.. then electrical gremlins at the end.

1996 GTI VR6. From 1996-2003.Also ran for 130,000 miles. Very few items failed. At 130K miles, the original clutch was starting to wear, I needed coil packs and all 4 corners needed brakes. Rather than fix up, bailed out and tried out a WRX instead.

2005.5 - present. VW Jetta. 191K miles. Original clutch. Original exhaust. Most reliable car I've ever had. A few warranty issues. Rear brakes every 80K miles (fronts are original); Although I think this generation Jetta (Mark V) was a bit overbuilt compared to the next generations.

[Andyrew]

There is a damn good reason why I sold my 02 Audi allroad and bought a Fiesta ST as a daily...

The ONLY way I sold it to my wife was to show her that over the cars warranty it will be cheaper than the allroad... By a pretty decent amount. She went for it and I love it almost as much as her Hyundai genesis coupe as a commuter (As a back road car the fiesta is hard to beat)..

[snakemain]

E46 M3 with no problems for several years. Brand new 08 BMW 335, started giving recurring problems at 20K miles. Dealer kept saying the shuddering and shaking was in spec and caused by ethanol gas. Ditched it still under warranty and got an X5. Couple years later started having terrible electrical problems that they couldn't fix. Ditched it for an enormous lifted F-150 twin turbo V6 that gave me 2 trouble-free years of 12.5 mpg, then traded that for a Macan S when they came out. 2 years and 30K miles later and still love it. Crossing my fingers.

[Series9]

2005.5 - present. VW Jetta. 191K miles. Original clutch. Original exhaust. Most reliable car I've ever had..

You are an absolute exception to the rule. I'm happy for you, but your experience is not at all common on an A5.