Engine Upgrade Options

[cal914]

I'm having my stock 2.0 6 engine upgraded to a 2.2S spec what type of power and performance will this give me and will there be a noticeable differences when I put the pedal down
Thanks B

[Vysoc]

2.2S spec will deliver 180 BHP in the higher RPM ranges. As with most "S" spec 911 engines the power band is in the higher RPM's.

If you don't want to live by constantly pushing that power band to the higher RPM's, an alternative is the 2.2E which made 155BHP and has a more flexible power band in the middle RPM range.

Either alternative is a much better choice that what the 2.0 can offer.

FWIW.

Vysoc (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[mepstein]

That's a strange thing to do without knowing what the results will be. Do you know how much you are spending or what your engine builder is actually doing?

[cal914]

The Guys stripped the engine and gave me the choice of stock or upgrading to 2.2 ,i don't really understand the technical talk that's why i ask you guys to put it in Layman's terms,yes i know exactly what i'm spending really just wanted to know if it will be noticeably fast as at the moment i have a stock 1.7
Thanks B

[BigFour1973]

The Guys stripped the engine and gave me the choice of stock or upgrading to 2.2 ,i don't really understand the technical talk that's why i ask you guys to put it in Layman's terms,yes i know exactly what i'm spending really just wanted to know if it will be noticeably fast as at the moment i have a stock 1.7
Thanks B

Ask him what hes doing to it then report back here.

Is he just going with larger P/C's? whats the stroke going to be? what cam is he using? is it carbureted or fuel injected? what work, if any, will be done to the heads? larger valves? butterfly cut heads? whats he going to use for ignition? distributor, points or electronic. or msd management.

the variables are endless.

[Cairo94507]

So I am a little confused, you have a 1.7 liter 4 cylinder in your car and are upgrading to a six cylinder engine, I think. Nice upgrade and you will like it a lot.

Additionally, you are having the six rebuilt from what is presently a 2.0 to a 2.2. If it were me, (old guy driving it around town) I would want it to have more bottom end and mid-range power. If you are tracking it, then running it up to redline is probably where you will see the "S" really come to life.

Ask your builder to give you all of the specs of the build: cams, carbs/F./I., pistons/cylinders and any valve or head work. Headers? etc.

Have you considered if your car will need additional cooling? Better to think about that before it is built than add it after.

Have fun.

[cal914]

Sorry should of explained better,i'm having a 6 GT replica built in the Gulf Colour scheme at Genes Auto Haven in Utah you can see the work so far on his FB page,my 1.7 is my car at present

[SirAndy]

Additionally, you are having the six rebuilt from what is presently a 2.0 to a 2.2. If it were me, (old guy driving it around town) I would want it to have more bottom end and mid-range power. If you are tracking it, then running it up to redline is probably where you will see the "S" really come to life.

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The "S" wouldn't be my first choice for a street car, you'll have to keep the rpms high to make it pull ...
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[mepstein]

Additionally, you are having the six rebuilt from what is presently a 2.0 to a 2.2. If it were me, (old guy driving it around town) I would want it to have more bottom end and mid-range power. If you are tracking it, then running it up to redline is probably where you will see the "S" really come to life.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

The "S" wouldn't be my first choice for a street car, you'll have to keep the rpms high to make it pull ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

People say S spec when they drop in a set of S cams but usually don't take into account the $1,500 worth of head work, S crank and all the other stuff that really goes with it. Add in 2 grand for the front oil cooling. It is good to know the performance characteristics of the engine you want before you build it.

[rudedude]

Having a 70 911S with the 2.2 and a 70/6 with 2.7RS spec motor I'd take the /6 any day. The S as they say is great from 4500-7500 but is a dog up til then and rarely gets driven.

[cal914]

I think I'm getting this wrong , is there a difference in a 2.2 and a 2.2S ( this shows how little I know about these things )

[0396]

I'm having my stock 2.0 6 engine upgraded to a 2.2S spec what type of power and performance will this give me and will there be a noticeable differences when I put the pedal down
Thanks B

Your response will be all over the place. All the points that have been given are correct, but your asking " will " there be a difference- yes. Especially over the 1.7.

[cal914]

I know there will be a big difference in s 4 cyl 1.7 and a 2.2 6 cyl I was asking what type of power a 2.2 gives you as I only drive a 1.7 at the moment

[porschetub]

I know there will be a big difference in s 4 cyl 1.7 and a 2.2 6 cyl I was asking what type of power a 2.2 gives you as I only drive a 1.7 at the moment

Yes the S in a handful to keep on the boil so to speak,good friend had one in the early days it was major fun on the open road twisties but a dog in town.
My motor is more or less stock 71 2.2t ,I haven't run my car as yet but if I was to update I would go with bored stock cylinders to 86mm and JE custom 9:1 pistons,biral cylinders are an option (preference), mild DC cams and a quality stock rebuild on heads.
A well built -6 can easily double the HP of the 1.7 -4.
This combination will yield a displacement of 2.3L and have a handy increase in power which will be fun to drive in ALL driving situations,at the end of the day it about how good the work is done to give you max bang for buck....it isn't cheap.
Make sure you pick a good engine builder from the very start.

[gereed75]

I originally had a 2.0 four. then a stock 2.0 six, then a worn out 2.4T now a 2.4 mod S.

On a yippee scale of 1 to 10 with the stock 4 being 1, the stock six is a 2 1/2. The sound and six feel being the biggest part of the difference ( some improved performance but not much). the 2.4T was a 4 on the scale = improved torque and driveability. you could feel the potential but still sorta blah.

The mod S is a solid 9 on the scale. It makes amazing torque in 2nd and 3rd, pulls 4th hard to redline, the sound is way cool. Huge difference from the stock six. Street driving below 6500 RPM, the stock cooler works fine. 9.5 compression and 93 octane pump gas.

I suspect that a 2.2 would be very close to the 2.4, just less torque.

I highly reccomend the DC30 Mod S cams - very fat in the torque range with near the HP of the S with no real need to rev to 7500 rpm.

I could not imagine going to all the trouble building a GT clone and then putting in a stock 2.0 or 2.2.

Depending on what you start with, The $$ difference between a stock 2.0 and a 2.2 Mod S is not much - port the heads, buy the cams then go have big fun.

I am swagging a bit on these numbers but here goes

1.7 four - 80 hp. 75 ft lbs tq
2.0 six - 103 hp, 90 ft lbs
2.2 T six - 125 hp. 115 ft lbs at 6500 rpm
2.2 S - 170 hp, 150 ft lbs at 7000 rpm
2,4 mod S - 180 hp, 165 ft lbs at 6500 rpm

Hp and Tq are pretty much linear, fun is exponential (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[gereed75]

Here's an article you may find interesting or confusing depending how much you want to get into this

http://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/177/a...ut#.V7SLFTUW6K0

If you want to know what is possible, search the Pelican boards and look for posts by Henry at Supertech. He builds some very cool short stroke motors.

[ClayPerrine]

I started with a bone stock 2.0 4, then a carbed and modified 2.0 4, then I moved to a bone stock 2.4T six with MFI, that was converted into a 2.4ST (S pistons, cylinders, and cams, but T heads) with MFI, and now I am going to a 4.0L 964 based engine.

The best so far has been the 2.4ST. With the Burscht exhaust, and a correctly tuned MFI, the engine is fairly easy to drive around town, and it screams when it is up on the cams. The big difference is that I don't run the stock 4 cylinder gearing in the transmission. Third through fifth have been changed to keep the engine up in the revs better. Fifth was the most important. If you get the wrong gears in fifth, the engine will overheat on the freeway in both 4th and 5th. It turns too fast in 4th, and too slow in 5th.

What your guy is describing is changing the pistons and cylinders out only. The 2.0 and 2.2 use the same 66mm throw crankshaft. The bore is smaller on the 2.0, and the 2.2 is the same bore as a 2.4. If he is tearing it down that far, swap the crank for a 70.4mm throw and get a 2.4 motor. E cams are better overall, or if you can find them, 911 solex cams are even better than the E cams. If you like rowing the boat all the time, then get the S cams, or go even more radical and get 904 cams.

Good luck!

[brant]

Its easy to spend someone else's money from my computer on the internet....


remember, when the factory went to actual S specifications, they changed a lot of things (expensive things) to make that motor work correctly and make it last also

things like a counter weighted crank shaft
MFI fuel injection
ported heads, bigger valves
a different distributor profile
and even strong cases

once you push a simple T case too far, and with too much RPM then these things start to become very important for longevity

I wouldn't want to over stress a 1969T case too much
these cases are old.
there is a reason people pay top dollar for small spigot 7R cases, or aluminum cases

on the street you would be better served with a E spec motor, maybe a high compression E spec motor. you won't get the output of the factory S spec motor without the heads, MFI, etc... you won't get the longevity of the factory without the counterweighted crankshaft, etc.

I'm going to (someday) build a high compression 2.4E cam'd carb motor for my street car. been collecting parts for a long time now

[mskala]

... I highly reccomend the DC30 Mod S cams - very fat in the torque range with near the HP of the S with no real need to rev to 7500 rpm.

Note you are mixing 2 things. Dougherty Cams has a lot of profiles. DC30 is a
'mod-Solex' which is like the early cars before T/E/S came along, but with improved
overlap. DC40 is the 'mod-S'.

[gereed75]

Yep. Mod Solex DC 30. Thanks for that clarification