What's the best way to test for spark?, Got fuel running to the rail... Options

[beemie96]

Okay, got the fuel pump pumping gas to the rail... (thanks to all that piped in there). (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

Now, I don't know if I'm getting spark.

Basically, what is the checklist for a non-starting car? the basic stuff first, since I think the car ran a number of years ago, and it's still looks pretty un-messed with, BUT, it looks like the coil is new, and some wiring and vaccuum hosing is new / cleaned.

So, I'm going to check the wiring to the coil and the sensors, make sure they're clean and un-broken and wired properly... i'd have done it last night, but it was midnight when i got the fuel pump going.

otherwise, though, what's the easiest way to verify that the plug are getting spark? without pulling the plugs... don't want to do that if I don't have to, i've stripped those things before... and that makes for a bad day.

[Mueller]

pull a wire off a plug, put the end near a metal part that is grounded...crank over the motor, you should get a spark you can see and hear........

[Joe Ricard]

Get a spark plug and stick it on one of the plug wires. Ground the threads of the plug to the engine case. get someone to crank the engine over. should be nice strong blue spark. If you got a hot coil or CDI box keep your fingers clear cause THAT SPARK will hurt like hell.

[GWN7]

Pull the coil wire from the dist cap and hold the end near the case (with insulated plyers). Have someone crank the car over.

If you have spark at the coil and not at the plug end, check cap, rotor, points and wires.

[lapuwali]

Take a spark plug and hook it to any of the plug wires, setting it on the engine someplace where it threaded portion is touching the cases. Have someone crank the engine with the key, and watch the plug. The spark should be fairly obvious. If this doesn't work, try using the wire from the coil to the distributor cap (a plug will usually fit there, too). If that works, but the first doesn't, it's the rotor or the cap (or that one plug wire). If the coil wire doesn't work, you need to check your coil, points, and condensor.

Checking and cleaning wiring connectors is one step. Electrical problems are nearly always at the connectors, and connectors can look OK but not be passing any current, because of dirt and corrosion, or because of a weak connection. More than once, someone has stated that a connection is fine, then they pull on it gently and the wire comes out of the connector.

Points are easy to check with a test light or meter. The coil and condensor, however, basically need to be swapped out. Fortunately, they're cheap.

If you get spark and you have fuel, the last things on a D-Jet car are: CHT sensor, the car won't start without one, and the wire to it often fails at the sensor; trigger points in the base of the distributor, which rarely fail, but eventually do need to be replaced; fuel pressure, if it's way too low, the car won't start. Make sure the MPS connectors are clean and well-seated. If the MPS fails mechanically (won't hold vacuum), I believe the car will start, but will run very poorly. However, the connections to and from it have to be good, or the injectors will never fire.

Finally, if you have spark and fuel and all the D-Jet wiring looks OK, check your ignition timing statically. If the timing is way off, the car won't start. It can usually be advanced too much and start fine, but it can't be retarded very much before it will fail to start.

[Bleyseng]

I get someone to turn over the engine while I am holding the sparkplug connector end, standing in a puddle. If it shocks the sh*t out of me its working.....

Hasn't stopped my heart yet!

[skline]

Or you could always do it the painful way, stick your finger in the end of one of the plug wires and turn it over. If it throws you back about 5 feet, its a good assumption, you have good spark. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Porsche Rescue]

If you have a timing light you can do it without assistance. Hook up the light to #1 wire. Should be enough line so you can stand at driver's door and turn engine over while holding trigger on the light. If it flashes you have spark. Test the other 3 as well if you feel the need.

[beemie96]

Wow! you guys are great! I didn't expect so many replies so fast... great ideas for basic trouble shooting... and I feel a little stupid for not thinking of the 'spare' spark plug idea... in my defense, i am pretty darn tired...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif)

I'll fill y'all in tomorrow morning. Can't try any of this out until after work...

[JoeSharp]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) Yeah! What they said. LMAO (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
I am suprised that no sugested peeing on a plug wire while cranking the motor over. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Joe

[Joe Ricard]

So Jeff started it (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif) Blew coffee out my nose AGAIN!!!!!! Almost died laughing at you guys. I was actually serious. also be careful if you spilled any gas in the engine compartment you will discover the external combustion engine.
Hey the the hell was that?

[Mueller]

QUOTE (Sammy @ Apr 14 2005, 11:28 AM)

This one's easy. Just say, "honey, come here and hold this for a minute...." Worked with a Joe Hunt vertex magneto many years ago on my blown gas hemi. those things can throw a spark 2". 'Corse she got so pissed she broke up with me. See? There's always a bright side (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

did the magneto trick on my brother....it was even funnier the second time when he fell for it again.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[Thorshammer]

This is interesting. and some of your answers are very helpful, but here goes.


As far as spark, there are two things you must know. Does it have spark and IS there enough spark energy to fire the mixture. So this is what you need to do:

Go down to the local auto parts store and BUY a spark checker, They cost almost nothing (5.00). Buy the one that has a ground clip and adjustable electrodes. Attach the electrodes to the wire and open the electrode gap on the tester to 8mm. Why so large you ask. You need to verify that under the pressure of combustion that there is anough available spark energy to fire the plug. You see, as the compression pressure goes up, the required spark energy also increases. As mixture becomes richer, more spark energy is needed to jump the spark plug gap as well. This 8mm gap is simulating the required spark energy to fire the plug under any conditions. This is how you test spark. It's cheap and easy to do it right.

Erik Madsen

[Joe Ricard]

Successful day I learned Something. Spark tester gotta get one of them.

[beemie96]

Well, since I'm solo tonight, here's what I tried:

replaced a spade connector to port '1' on the coil. it was pretty weak.

the condenser / points / dist cap / rotor are all new.

checked the '15' wire connector .. felt solid.

wrapped a wire around a spare spark plug's threads and connected that to the fan housing, connected a couple of the plug wires to the plug -- nothing.

connected a plug wire to the coil directly... nothing...

now, that plug could be bad... but I don't think I would have kept it if it was.

i plan to have the wife turn the key while I hold the coil wire near the fan housing, but that won't be until sunday night ...

here i am ... going to new orleans this weekend, and I wish I was staying home to work on the teener...

I'm sure that will change once I get there... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif)

[Joe Ricard]

Whoo Hoo, Hey you need to come by the house or we need to meet up. I'll let you drive the yellow teener.
I'm and hour 45 minutes away. You have a pm

[beemie96]

Well, Joe, it was a whirlwind, as I expected! Weddings always are... rehearsal dinner, then wedding, then flying home. Got home early enough to trouble shoot the heck out of the ignition system.

Tested the coil - that didn't test as well as I thought, so I cleaned the points, and it tested better. But, still no spark.

What could it be? plug wires? Nah, they're pretty new, as are the dist cap, rotor, points, condenser, etc. But, everything looked to be in order and testing like it should work... so I finally employed the wife to start the car while I watched the distributer spin... guess what... the points weren't opening! Apparently they were replaced, but not set properly, and the dist wasn't moving them. So I 'eyeballed' it, put everything back together, and tried it again...

Spark! Whoo Hoo!

So, could it be that easy? hook up the plug wires again, turn the key

It sputtered! Holy crap! That means spark got to a plug!

Turn the key, hold it for a good minute while the car struggles...

And it starts! It's alive! Whoo hoo!

Now, I was told that it hadn't run in years, and it's got enough crap burning off it, and enough smoke coming from the exhaust that I believe it. But, it started and ran for 10 minutes! It's leaking oil at the tube seals, so they're on order from Pelican, as are shifter bushings, speed bleeders, brake fluid, and some other items.

Still plenty to do, but when the engine starts, it just feels more productive. Now I know I'm working on a 'running' car!

Any suggestions on the things I need to do before I put this baby on the road?