Al Reed restoration -- what size shoes to wear?, New Tires are mounted Options

[Jett]

With the help of this form and others, we have been slowly restoring our Delphi Green 73 914 2.0/4 Appearence package and are finally approaching the completion. In preparation of the build completion we asked Al Reed to restore our wheels and they arrived this morning. We think the wheels are amazing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That said, I was going to install a set of P7s 165 70 15.

Thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

Please note that we will share the entire build once complete, thanks again for all the help!

[JRust]

Go wider! At least 195/60/15's. 205's should fit as well but 195's will fit for sure no problem.

[johannes]

I like the 185/65. Very large choice in this size

[Cal]

Those wheels turned out very nice indeed.....now you just have to add the fox manufacture decal/print to the back side (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

What are you going to use the car for?

If concours, get 165/80-15 tires. Vredestein makes ones with a vintage-looking tread pattern, and Coker I think re-pops Michelen XWXes.

If racing/track days/autoX, go with the largest tires allowed by the rules and/or the fenders. Usually 205/50-15.

For just cruising around, find a tire you like the looks of and go with it.

--DD

[rhodyguy]

195 55 or 60. with fresh paint why gamble on a rub issue? beautiful wheels.

[Tom_T]

Al's shop does such great work! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

Jett - what type of a resto are you doing? .... what is your goal?
.... Concours or Driver? .... Originality? .... Resto Mod?

Those 165/70R15 will give you a pretty big odometer error of 16% IIRC, so you'll add up "shadow" or "ghost mileage" post resto pretty quickly, & pay the ultimate value penalty for it later on down the road, as did other members on here. So you'll want to use one of the tire error calculators online to compare with the stock 165/80R15 size for error, to try to minimize it.

For example, Todd914 on here did a pristine CW refurb of a nice low mile original survivor red/black 73 2L & put the factory recco'd substitue 195/65R15s on with half your Pirelli's error at about 8%, & paid the penalty of a couple of $10Ks when he sold it after a short hold

Your wheels look to be dead on original correct - down to anodizing them & with the dulled down background.

So if you're looking for period correct - the 73-76 2.0's came with H speed rated tires in 165HR15 (i.e.: 165/80HR15 in today's /80 profile size), & you should stick with the 165HR15 (or at least a 165SR15 or TR, which weren't around back then) size tires.

Check at Lucas Tires in Long Beach CA & their UK counterpart Longstone Tyres for what they have (US can get anything on the UK site as well). You'll find that their tire prices are better than Coker in most cases, & Al could've had theirs mounted on his wheels for you, had you made the choice before he shipped them (for futre ref & for others reading here).

http://www.lucasclassictires.com

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk

There are also Universal & Coker to price check as well -

https://www.universaltire.com

https://www.cokertire.com

Some of the question is also what you want to drop $$s for a set of 5 tires, cuz they range from $70-100 each for basic B-brand 165/80SR15s, up to $400-500 for 185 XWX Michelins. Also, a member here has 2 unused/never mounted XWXs in the Parts FS classifieds for a reasonable price (for those), to get part way there.

Vredestein has a decent HR one at the lower end, & sometimes Bridgestone will have an SR or TR or HR rated 165/80R15, & there are some off-brand or B-brand 165/80R15's out there too, but I wouldn't recco any of them.

FYI - T speed rating is adequate for our 2Ls /4s but wasn't out back then, & HR was overkill beyond the rated 119 mph spec top speed of a 73-74 2L (I've had my stock 73 2L up to 126 though), so the HR goes with more cushion, whereas the SR is too low for a 2L, but was spec'd for the 1.7L & 1.8L with lower top speeds - but are usable in real world sub-100 mph use..

The next step up would be the period correct mfgrs. & both Pirelli Cinturato & Michelin have 165/80R15 in S, H, & V speed ratings: Michiliin in XZX SR, XAS HR (the XAS needs tubes), as well as the period option XWX 185/70VR15 (nominal <0.1% error IIRC).

Another option there is on a tire very much like the OE "Dog-bone tread" Dunlop SP57 165HR15's which were most often spec'd on our 2Ls, 194-6's & 911s of that day (the 185 XWX above being the optional upgrade), is the modern retro tire by Blockley here:

http://www.lucasclassictires.com/165VR15-B...Radial-504p.htm

While those choices above will look most original & period correct on your resto, you won't be dinged at any of the local Region nor Zone PCA Concours for having non-original size &/or make tires (originality isn't judged here in our Zone 8, & AFAIK not in your Zone either), & may only run into it at a non-PCA Concours where they'd look for old school Michi or Pirelli etc., & maybe at the national PCA Parade Concours. that's my truth in advertizing bit on tires, but I do like the old school size & make look on a well restored or perserved survivor 914.

If you're looking for a driving tire & don't care about odometer error, then others on here are probably up to date on the current choices, but I would still suggest using the tire calculator to get the least speedo/odo error tires with the performance specs/profile for which you're looking.

Also beware that some of the wider tires will give you rub marks on the inner front wheelwells, &/or at the outer F &/or R fender lips, which would cause damage to your frest paint - so choose wisely & test them out on the lift with full lock turns L & R, & at the R fenders.

There is a Tires & Wheels nailed topic at the O&H Forum with a lot of info on tires too FYI.

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[Larmo63]

I'd go 205/60 15.

This size looks perfect on the car, unless you are going for factory originality.

[Jett]

Thanks Everyone for the insight.

To retain originality and reduce the speedometer error, we decided to go with the stock "upgrade" Michelin XWX 185/70VR15 from Coker (free shipping).

Cheers

PS Thanks Tom for the data. IIRC the original unused Michelin spare was an odd size... 165/78/15? I'll have to find the old thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tom_T]

Thanks Everyone for the insight.

To retain originality and reduce the speedometer error, we decided to go with the stock "upgrade" Michelin XWX 185/70VR15 from Coker (free shipping).

Cheers

PS Thanks Tom for the data. IIRC the original unused Michelin spare was an odd size... 165/78/15? I'll have to find the old thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No Jett, it would've been all 5 - including the spare - of the same original 165HR15 (165/80HR15 or 165/80R15 H in today's coding) - & what came from the factory would've only had 165HR15 on the sidewall for your 2L (or all 5 185 XWXs if that option box ticked off).

If your current spare is a /78, then it was a replacement tire since new, cuz they didn't list the section profile size number then, but it was "assumed" to be 80-82%, & some followed on with /78 IIRC I think Michi came out with those in the early 80's, but were not an HR IIRC, cuz the 165HR15s all went away then, & my last road set were Kleber 165SR15 which still were around in 1980).

Look up tire size info. at the Tire Rack info section to see what they all were & how the /80 "estimate" came about, as well as current speed, load, wear, etc. ratings - which the new repros also need to have now too AFAIK.

PS - FYI - Coker is not making their own XWX repop, but buying them from the same Michelin Classic plant making them & the XZX & XAS for the other sellers. I don't know if they're claiming that, but I think the truth is that they may have requested Michi to keep making them in return for a certain order number .... then they can try to say "we did it" - but in fact there are many classic tire outlets in the USA & Europe/UK & worldwide who are buying the production runs.

So you can either add a 5th 185 XWX to your order (call them 1st thing Monday) since all 5 including spare would've matched, since you're essentially trying to recreate the factory XWX option.

Or you could just pick one of the other 165/80R15 in S or H speed rating as a spare - as if the OO had upgraded to the 185 XWX option on 4 wheels from a car originally equipped with the 165s (back then you could do an in-dealership option or upgrade/change, similar to today, & was perhaps more common then - such as all those M471 914-6GT kits sold byy Porche+Audi dealers back then).

Either way, it's probably best to add it to your Coker order for free shipping on all 5 tires as a group, even if a mixed-set (4+1).

IIRC the PCA Parade is up your way next year! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[Larmo63]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

We want to see the car with the new tires!!!!!!!!

[Jett]

Thanks Tom, we bought 5 of the XWX tires...

Added a shot of the car...with the shop tires on it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[napasteve]

Wow, your car looks great Jett.

[rhodyguy]

Very...those wheels will fetch some dough if you decide to let them go.

[JRust]

Very...those wheels will fetch some dough if you decide to let them go.

The VW offset american wheels? Don't know why those would pull money. I've tossed them on more than one occasion.

[siverson]

I know I'm in the minority, but I really like 165 tires on stock -4 cars. 100# springs and a front sway bar (stock or bigger) and they still handle *REALLY* well. And I like the skinny tire look for stock cars.

-Steve

[rhodyguy]

Not everyone drives a 914 Jamie. I didn't mean to imply they're worth a fortune, but given the $ invested in the new wheels and tires, every bit will help.

[pete000]

I like the 185/65. Very large choice in this size

Al Does great work, they look perfect !

I run 185/60's

[Tom_T]

I know I'm in the minority, but I really like 165 tires on stock -4 cars. 100# springs and a front sway bar (stock or bigger) and they still handle *REALLY* well. And I like the skinny tire look for stock cars.

-Steve

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Steve,

My 73 2L always handled very well fully stock for springs/torsion bars, Boge shocks, 165 tires, stock rubber bushings, & stock F & R anti-sway bars - & even better when I upgraded to the Koni Red shocks & struts in its 80-83 rolling resto (after the OE Boges wore out). Porsche did a great job of balancing great handling on the 2L, with not killing your kidneys DDing on rough roads with too stiff of a suspension IMHO, as well as giving 30-35+ mph Hwy on the 165s. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

PS - that was with 165HR15 (/80) Semperit M401 & M501 dogbone treads like the OE Dunlop SP57s, & they performed 99% as well as the SP57s but would last 40k miles vs. 10-15k on the Dunlops according to the MT & R&T period Tire Tests. They were excellent handling tires, without breaking the bank on a DD with new tires every 9-18 months! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Unfortunately by 1980 they weren't making or importing them here, so I had to go with Kleber 165SR15s (another French Tire Co. & only made SR), in that 80-83 resto/refurb - so I gained suspension capability with the Konis, but lost some handling with the Kelbers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[Tom_T]

Very...those wheels will fetch some dough if you decide to let them go.

The VW offset american wheels? Don't know why those would pull money. I've tossed them on more than one occasion.

They actually may be the 914 ET40 offset flavor too Jaimie, since VTO did make the 40 offset back in the day IIRC.

And if cleaned up for sale, just about any period wheel will pull $50-100 per with the 914 & VW folks out there who like a particular wheel. TheSamba.com & here & CL, evil-bay etc. are the best places to list them FS.

That style wheel was never one that flaoted my boat, but there are folks out there who like them.

Frankly, I wasn't a big fan of the Fuchs 2L wheels back when I got my 73 2L in 1975, so I wasn't disappointed that it had the 5 spoke original Rivieras on it, but am going back to the Fuchs 2L with a set of 5 done by Al Reed for SoCalAndy's former 72 2056 build, but I'll have them anodized back to stock look (Andy liked them polished).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////