Is a 914 a good car for weekend / track car fun?, A bird says otherwise... Options

[2mAn]

I made a similar thread over on Pelican and was shocked to see the responses that the 914 was a bad choice...

Heres the story.

I've had this E30 ('84 BMW) that I built a few years ago and am closing in on 4 years of ownership. Its a total blast, but being in California, and having a motor swap, Im having a headache making it street legal and then it will be hard to modify it to STAY street legal.

Ive really had the 914 itch and this last year the BMW no longer has to fulfill duties of daily driving. That means that the E30 is strictly a "fun" car and doesnt really need to be "comfortable." Its not plush anyways but it still has a back seat, carpet, stereo, etc. A "fun" car doesnt need these things because its simply to take out, drive like a maniac and tuck back in the garage. Im not going to be hauling people around, sitting in bumper to bumper traffic, going on long drives, etc. This works to the benefit of the 914 because A) its an older design so naturally will be less "comfortable," B) It doesnt need to be smog compliant which gives me more room to play around and finally, C) its a car that is more oriented to being a "fun" car than a "comfy" car.

The plan with this fun car is to slowly get more involved with autocross, HPDE and eventually take part in either BMW CCA or PCA or POC track events. I've really wanted to take a 914 and give the 911 a run for their money. I know the BMW is powerful enough to compete with them, but then I dont want this car to be a trailer queen, it needs to stay streetable and thats where the E30 is going to be a tough one as I love the package Ive built, I dont want to strip this car out, I feel like it just becomes another raced out E30.

I was shocked to find that nobody thought the 914 was a good choice, whereas Ive always felt it was the BEST choice, given budget and the above mentioned options.

So, I know you guys are biased, but I thought I would ask directly from the source and get some input. For the record, the miata is simply there because everyone thinks its so great. I will never get one. I would rather ride my Schwinn.... or just keep my E30 instead.

Hopefully this makes sense, but I may need to clarify my intentions more...

thoughts? opinions?

[Andyrew]

You'll spend more time fixing it than driving it... But thats what I have my 914 for... I love fabricating and making things better... thus my 914 is my toy.

I have my Fiesta ST for a get in and drive the piss out of car... Its my mountain road monster... It also happens to be my daily driver/commuter..


Really its all about what you want out of it. If you dont want to have to do work on it then the 914 isnt the weekend car for you. If you enjoy working on things then its a great car..

For the money there are much better cars though if thats a concern..

[dslinc]

I was really going to ask the same question. I'd hope more people can chime in regarding this.

I used to own a miata and sold it a year or so ago. The miata was great but I need something new.

[wndsrfr]

I need a car that needs me more than I need the car.....

If that makes sense to you, get the 914.

My /6 (2.7, about 2000 pounds) eats some E30's at DE's even with a 71 year old driver. Something very satisfying about doing that with a 40 year old car...

[Cracker]

Hands down get/build a 914. I stirred up a hornets nest some time ago mainly regarding this same issue. The lack of 914 presence at the track is discouraging - being such a great car. The vast majority of owners here are "normal" non-performance drivers - more show, shine, originality stuff. Fine for them but doesn't get my blood flowing.

PM me if you are interested in discussing the finer points of preparing a 914 for track duty. I spend an entire year building my car and have now run the first 5 weekend events (DE's) without a breakdown of any kind. I've owned allot of different cars, some very quick and expensive race cars - nothing quite offers me the same joy as the old 914. I hope you chose to do it - BMW's are great cars - the e30's not so much - nothing special. I grew up in the hobby with Bimmers and know them very, very well.

The amount of thoughtful planning, knowing what to concentrate on and executing to the best of your ability and budget will all allow you to have a rewarding experience. IF you do it RIGHT, you will never regret campaigning a 914!

All the best!

PS: For inspiration...here are two pics of my 914 track car - I eat GT3 cup cars for fun - really. This is my street car too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Tony

At our last event...we were the fastest car out of 140 or so entries (including 6 cup cars); lap times not acceleration (well acceleration too)! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nBg507dlcs

[carr914]

My 914



or my ChumpCar



Both GREAT at what they do!

[J P Stein]

The 914 with a good 6 is a killer car. Unfortunately the days of an inexpensive conversion are over.

The Subie option is good one if you can build it, DIY.

The T-4 is........an unwilling participant.

I voted for the Miata.

[Cracker]

I respect every opinion but it isn't about "logical financial investment" when it comes a 914, IMHO. Its like John said earlier, "I wanted a car that needed me more than I needed it" (or close to that)...

Just sayin': driven a bunch of Miata's on track = boring. That's just my takeaway though...I like speed (everywhere) and those other two options need not even apply.

PS: I will kindly put this out there too...if you need a poll of strangers to steer you in a direction (many of whom probably have never been on a track); stick with your Bimmer. A 914 track car should be only attempted by those who need no help making that decision. Capisce? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Cheers so you are not insulted...

Tony

The 914 with a good 6 is a killer car. Unfortunately the days of an inexpensive conversion are over.

The Subie option is good one if you can build it, DIY.

The T-4 is........an unwilling participant.

I voted for the Miata.

[brant]

Always read the rule book first
I don't care if you don't intend to actually race
you should still build to a set of rules, if nothing more than for resale value.

the 914 is a vintage car
the others are not
do you want to run a vintage car or a track car?

a competitive wheel to wheel 914 (4 or 6 honestly) will cost double what the other 2 options above will cost (ok, maybe the 914/6 will be triple)


a big bore -4 race car is not going to have a class to run in, and will not be competitive in any class they bump you up to in order to find you a place to run.

see rule number one: RTRB

[ndfrigi]

Hey Simon,

you might want to watch this youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVgvwuTgfB0

[campbellcj]

Very sage advice above. Also bear in mind that you will see few or no 914s anymore in POC or PCA club racing. You may see some in autocross or DE but probably fading away quickly as well. So if you want to drive with like-minded folks having similar cars, that's another aspect to consider carefully. When I take my 914 out with POC these days, I'm typically the only 914 and one of the few aircooled cars out there... and a key reason I'm planning to join VARA in January.

Also, I remember we exchanged notes on costs earlier but to reiterate -- definitely do not assume a car will be cheaper to build or run because it's older and simpler -- if anything, these old cars have become far MORE expensive to build and to run vs. a Boxster/BSR or SpecMiata or Spec944 or whatnot. The more you modify, the deeper you dig that hole.

[2mAn]

Lots of responses and as I expected, it was mostly biased towards the 914, which is fine. I was hoping to gain personal experience from 914 owners, so thank you all for sharing your experiences.

I cant reply to everyone individually, but the overall impression Im getting is that in order to be remotely competitive I need a 6 (or a monster V8 like Tony) and theres simply no way to build something like that for less than double what I have into my own car. And the reality of that is that I think the overall package would still be less than what I currently own.

Those who seem to have dismissed the E30s, thats fine, but mine isnt a regular E30 either that you may have experienced. Im glad I got encouraging words here, but it also cements that the 914 I picture competing with will be in the back of the pack.

I still plan to get my hands on a 914, but it will have to wait until the right time, and it doesnt seem to be now, and it doesnt look like the 914 will replace the E30, but supplement it.

[brant]

I personally believe a 4 cylinder 914 is more competitive (against the cars it is classed with in racing) than a 6 cylinder 914 is.

and I race a 6
but no way my 2.0 can out power a 240Z or lotus elan....

[Cracker]

Good choice.

T

[Randal]

A great all around car, i.e., one that works on the road or at the track, is a (used) Boxster S. They are cheap, handle and are relatively fast, even in stock condition. And if you want something really fast, throw in an LS engine.

[campbellcj]

A great all around car, i.e., one that works on the road or at the track, is a (used) Boxster S. They are cheap, handle and are relatively fast, even in stock condition. And if you want something really fast, throw in an LS engine.

Or a proven Spec Boxster (BSR) -- people "graduate" or "retire" all the time and sell their cars for far less than a new build.

[mepstein]

The 914 is a cult car. Takes way more time, money and energy than it's worth compared to other cars, unless you love 914's. Once your hooked, your hooked but if you are lukewarm, it's not the car for you.

[ThePaintedMan]

Simon,
Chris just touched on something here - 99/100 times you will never be able to build something as cheap as you can buy a pre-built racecar. You may still need to "redo" some things or make modifications, but even then it'll be cheaper to buy something that's already built.
Personally what I would suggest is that you get some seat time first. You can rent cars for track days from various teams/shops. Go do a track day in an E30 if you can, or better yet, an autocross. Start small. No matter WHAT car you decide on, there is no such thing as a trouble-free or cheap track car. They take an insane amount of work just to keep on the track, let alone be competitive.
Or, you can jump all in like we did and do a race in Chumpcar or LeMons (I would highly recommend the former over LeMons). In either of these series, there are plenty of teams which will rent you a ride in their car, which is much cheaper than going out and buying one, then finding out it's not what you like. E30s are all over the place, seem to be pretty reliable and are "fairly" cheap. Several of us run 914s in Chumpcar and while fun, they need serious work to keep up with cars even 10 years newer. I drove an E30 and while I beat the living snot out of it and it was easy to drive, it was no where near as fun or gave as much feedback as the 914. However, with an E30, you'll always have a class/series to race in; Chumpcar, SCCA, NASA Spec E30, etc.

Here's a video of a Chumpcar 914 out there by you with a big honkin V8 swap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAqNehNGtE8


There's PLENTY of E30 videos out there if you search.

[Krieger]

If you are not worried about class, build your 914/6 how you want to and go to DE, time trials, autocross and have a FANTASTIC time. Buying a built car could be a better choice. I know a couple of spec Boxster guys that transitioned from 914 or 911 feel the car has no soul, but like the competitive aspect.

[J P Stein]

I went out & bought a Miata that has a few mods......a FM turbo set up installed is in the mix.

It goes like stink.