A Porsche in the woods you say? |
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A Porsche in the woods you say? |
Vysoc |
Sep 24 2016, 04:05 PM
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#21
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Vysoc Group: Members Posts: 586 Joined: 27-August 09 From: Young Harris, Georgia Member No.: 10,737 Region Association: South East States |
Great conversation (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
I love the PURE Porsche 356 Shape especially of a Pre-A Coupe. I hope this one has enough left to make it back!! Vysoc (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif) |
KELTY360 |
Sep 24 2016, 05:56 PM
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#22
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914 Neferati Group: Members Posts: 5,028 Joined: 31-December 05 From: Pt. Townsend, WA Member No.: 5,344 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Wow. 99% of that *car* will be replaced. Keep the Vin and replace everything else. And that's OK with some who don't agree with Vin swapping. What's the difference? Good point regarding VIN swapping, but I think there is way more than 1% of the car that's salvageable. I see front suspension components in one pic. The cowl looks intact, the front trunk floor and left inner fender plus the nose looks viable. Hard to tell from the pics but even the firewall looks intact. No doubt the floor is gone, but it's a vw, right? The floors are always gone. The windshield frame looks solid and the rear window openings look uncompromised. The roof has been oil-canned but doesn't look creased. I'm no expert but don't think it's that bad a starting point for a master restorer. Thousands of hours...yes, but no doubt worth the time and effort. JMHO |
Catorse |
Sep 24 2016, 06:50 PM
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 27-August 15 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 19,106 Region Association: Southwest Region |
The 356 in that picture will have lots of good metal to start with. Mine was about that bad minus all the dents. Plus, you add parts from OTHER 356s - little mechanical bits, etc. to make a complete car.
Plenty of repro metal out there, and BTW, Porsche NOS metal is nearly gone. As to comparing it to a Beck or other replica - guess what, a Beck doesn't have a Porsche VIN. So there you are. |
bandjoey |
Sep 24 2016, 07:22 PM
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#24
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bandjoey Group: Members Posts: 4,923 Joined: 26-September 07 From: Bedford Tx Member No.: 8,156 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Museum piece
Collectors garage Fireplace mantle art No different than a Flathead Ford hot rod with a new body. It's what the owner wants. My 2cents. Cool to see it saved anyway. |
My 914 |
Sep 25 2016, 07:41 AM
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#25
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Casual Member Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 23-April 16 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 19,928 Region Association: North East States |
Agreed. If the owner is happy with the project and/or the car, that's all that matters. The rest is just opinion.
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Mikey914 |
Sep 25 2016, 09:30 AM
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#26
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The rubber man Group: Members Posts: 12,638 Joined: 27-December 04 From: Hillsboro, OR Member No.: 3,348 Region Association: None |
Where do you draw the line-
Basically if you have the vin tag, you are building the car around it. Legally I guess that's it, but is the spirit of the car there? |
bretth |
Sep 25 2016, 09:48 AM
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#27
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 899 Joined: 23-June 15 From: Central TX Member No.: 18,882 Region Association: Southwest Region |
It's automotive archeology. Many other cars in this shape would just be left to disintegrate. How awesome that one more will be saved from the brink with at least some of its original parts.
Brett |
Larmo63 |
Sep 25 2016, 09:48 AM
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#28
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,264 Joined: 3-March 14 From: San Clemente, Ca Member No.: 17,068 Region Association: Southern California |
I'm getting rid of the 914 Rubber on my car.
It wasn't made in Germany. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) |
jmitro |
Sep 25 2016, 12:02 PM
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#29
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 713 Joined: 23-July 15 From: Oklahoma Member No.: 18,986 Region Association: None |
I'm getting rid of the 914 Rubber on my car. It wasn't made in Germany. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) LOL touche' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) |
JoeDees |
Sep 25 2016, 12:24 PM
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#30
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 10-November 14 From: Northern Kentucky Member No.: 18,106 Region Association: None |
Was Darth Vader still Anakin Skywalker?
I had a philosophy professor ask that question and coupled it with the fact that every cell in your body dies and gets replaced every x years, so physically you are not the same person you were x years ago. Or what if doctors could perform a brain transplant: You and a buddy are in a bad car wreck, you're paralyzed from the nose down and his body is perfect but brain dead; they put your brain in his body, who is buried and who is alive? Edit to add: If Darth Vader and Frankenstein's monster are both formed out of random "after-market" parts, is Darth Vader "different" and "granted citizenship" differently because he has a "history" vs F's Monster who is just now born? Or can the Monster claim lineage from a donor? |
JoeDees |
Sep 25 2016, 12:48 PM
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#31
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 10-November 14 From: Northern Kentucky Member No.: 18,106 Region Association: None |
So when is it a VIN swap?
Let's say I have a super rusted and wrecked (rolled and flipped) 914-6 and a rust-free and straight 914-4 parts car. Scenario A: I cut the VIN tags off the 6, carry them across the garage and weld them onto the parts car. Scenario B: I cut out around the VIN tags, carry all of the parts from the 4 across the garage and weld them around the 914xxx tags. Scenario C: I cut the parts car into 100 pieces, cut the 6 into 100 pieces, mix them all together then weld the best of them together with the 914xxx VIN tag. Scenario D: I cut the parts car into 100 pieces, cut all of the rust off of the 6 (90+% of the car), buy a few Restoration Design parts and put the 6 together with the RD parts and pieces of the donor 4. Scenario E: I cut the parts car into 100 pieces, cut all of the rust off of the 6 (90+% of the car), buy every piece Restoration Design sells and puts the 6 together with the RD parts and pieces of the donor 4. Scenario F: I restore the 6 by cutting one bad area off of the car at a time, repairing it with a good section from the donor car until I have a complete 6 with a 914xxx VIN tag. Scenario G: I restore the 6 by cutting one bad area off of the car at a time, repairing it with either a good section from the donor car, some RD pieces, and some fabbed pieces until I have a complete 6 with a 914xxx VIN tag. Does it matter if the VIN plates never leave "the car"? ie the section/pile/whatever of metal in that particular garage bay versus the tags getting carried across the shop, put on the work bench, etc. This is why I think it's important for shops/restorers to present records and photos of work done and for buyers to demand it. Luckily the ethics of Frankenstein/Darth Vader cars are less so than with humans, and can be determined by informed buys who should and do pay more for original cars, a little less for ones with some work, etc. |
jack20 |
Sep 25 2016, 04:47 PM
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 406 Joined: 7-November 14 From: Granite Bay, CA Member No.: 18,099 Region Association: Northern California |
I have a late friend who "restored"classic wooden boats. Through him I learned a little about how these boats have survived over the years. Some rare and valuable Hackers and Gar Woods are passed on through generations and maintained along the way.
Other more common brands such as Chris Craft are sometimes discovered in back yards left outside to rot for 60 years. While the hardware, gauges and data plate may still be intact, the boat is nothing more than a pattern. Often, the engines are long gone. He actually called them "pattern boats" and built 3 of them. Records of these boats are still maintained very much like a Porsche COA. He bought the mahogany at a lumber yard, formed it into something so beautiful it seemed a shame to get it anywhere near water. The judges at the annual Lake Tahoe concours d' elegance awarded his boats accordingly. I've always looked at rusted out 356s the same way the boat guys view a rotted wood boat. if they have a vin they are genuine. A restored 356, regardless of how much new metal was still born a Porsche. A Beck Speedster will never be a Porsche. It will always be a Beck. $.02 |
JmuRiz |
Sep 25 2016, 06:58 PM
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#33
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,421 Joined: 30-December 02 From: NoVA Member No.: 50 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I'm with jack20, 356s are like 914s only having more years to rust. Unless its been redone by someone in the past, it's probably rusty and will need a lot of repairs anyway.
Mine had the bottom 4" or so fixed on it by the PO and it looked just fine to the avg viewer. Only thing left to do now are door bottoms. A pre-A, A or any drop top model is well worth saving...even if they look like this car. |
mbseto |
Sep 26 2016, 08:29 AM
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#34
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,253 Joined: 6-August 14 From: Cincy Member No.: 17,743 Region Association: North East States |
VIN swap is not a technical concept, it's a moral concept. Are you being transparent and not deceiving anyone (intentional or not)? Whatever was done to the car, is it properly disclosed and straightforward to track? Not a VIN swap.
Are you hiding something to make an extra buck? Trying to fool someone? That's a VIN swap. Obviously, even if your motives are pure- if you do something dumb and/or suspicious, the law gets the final say and they use the technical facts because you can't read a person's mind. |
jd74914 |
Sep 26 2016, 08:55 AM
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#35
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Its alive Group: Members Posts: 4,776 Joined: 16-February 04 From: CT Member No.: 1,659 Region Association: North East States |
Ignoring the idea of if the final car is truly a Porsche or not, I wish I had the metal working skills to bring a car like this back. Anyone who does is just amazing!
Dragging stuff like this out of the woods is pretty neat though. How do you find it? |
era vulgaris |
Sep 26 2016, 10:07 AM
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#36
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J is for Genius Group: Members Posts: 982 Joined: 10-November 13 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 16,629 Region Association: South East States |
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Unobtanium-inc |
Sep 27 2016, 06:12 PM
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#37
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,198 Joined: 29-November 06 From: New York Member No.: 7,276 Region Association: None |
I want everyone to closely read and look at the pictures of what was left of 550-0001 when it was found in a shoe factory in Mexico. How much of that car is original? But I bet you won't find one person who would walk into the Collier Collection and called it a reproduction. If you own the car, and replace 99% of it, you still own the car. What you can't do is what a lot of guys try to do, build the car off an old part of the car. There was a guy who had a Carrera Speedster he said, he put the number out there and a guy in Sweden popped up and he had the car, turns out the 1st guy bought a pair of doors with a story of how the car was scrapped, well, it wasn't and he was commiting fraud, trying to build a car around a pair of doors. Or another guy who bought a bunch of RSR leftover parts, found a chassis and starting building the car, only to get $250,000 into it, about to take it to Amelia Island and some guy in Denmark said he had the burned up shell in his backyard.
But if you own the car and build it, that's the car. Check out 550-0001. https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/2011/09...e-giant-killer/ Attached image(s) |
Unobtanium-inc |
Sep 27 2016, 06:15 PM
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#38
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,198 Joined: 29-November 06 From: New York Member No.: 7,276 Region Association: None |
How on earth do you find them? Do you have to know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy that remembers a story about some other guy that said as a kid saw something buried in the middle of the woods that kind of looked like a 356? People know to call me, I pay very fair and can get a car out of anywhere. I also pay very nice finder's fees so lots of guys are looking for me. |
Garland |
Sep 27 2016, 09:18 PM
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#39
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Restoration Fanatic Group: Members Posts: 1,327 Joined: 8-January 04 From: ......Michigan...... Member No.: 1,535 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Check out 550-0001.
WOW! |
bretth |
Sep 27 2016, 10:35 PM
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#40
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 899 Joined: 23-June 15 From: Central TX Member No.: 18,882 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Amazing that they did away with the whole aluminum body. Just thinking about what could have happened to it, could have been melted down and turned into a door stop.
Brett |
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