The 914 conversion, 3.3 Ltr suby upgrade Options

[flmont]

So Here is my problem,..using small car mount I had a cross bar made my engine sits level or very close,But the small car brackets sit right on top of the cross bar,which I guess is good,. but A. it Hits the oil pan (so now it needs modded) but not sure if engine sits to high or not what measurements are needed for everything to line up without stressing any componets....Thanks Frank

[worn]

So Here is my problem,..using small car mount I had a cross bar made my engine sits level or very close,But the small car brackets sit right on top of the cross bar,which I guess is good,. but A. it Hits the oil pan (so now it needs modded) but not sure if engine sits to high or not what measurements are needed for everything to line up without stressing any componets....Thanks Frank

Can you have a new cross bar fabricated? Sorry, I am not very familiar with water cooled variants. It seems though that with the transaxle set up there isn’t going to be tons of torque at the mount. The original six was a one point motor mount. True some of the quick six mounts for conversions failed using modified crossmemembers. But it looks like you could solve a few problems at the same time if the cross piece allowed you to move the motor forward and maybe bent around the pan.

Sorry, I am getting up to speed slow with the Small Car products.

[flmont]

Yes that's what I am thinking I need to move forward about a inch or 1 1/4 ,..maybe find a large steel pipe and cut it in half and use that radius and then reinforce it

[Chris914n6]

I'd just do a U shaped cross bar. As long as it mounts ridged to either the chassis or engine it's good.

[76-914]

You have that bar dead center of the mount location. IIRC, you can fudge 1.5" in any direction. That is about a 3" circle that your bar hangs from and is centered in. Remove that plate with the 2 small bolts which hold it in place and use a 1/4" plate in it's place. I can take pic's if this doesn't make sense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[worn]

You have that bar dead center of the mount location. IIRC, you can fudge 1.5" in any direction. That is about a 3" circle that your bar hangs from and is centered in. Remove that plate with the 2 small bolts which hold it in place and use a 1/4" plate in it's place. I can take pic's if this doesn't make sense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

That sounds like a great idea. Moving the ends of the cross member forward instead of bending the middle. Also, that looks the forged cross member. I think earlier they used a rectangular section steel tube instead. That might be easier to mess with than the forging.

[Chi-town]

If you have access to a chop saw, cut the cross bar at 45 deg. on both sides and angle then forward. This should put your bar right across the front of your smallcar mount. You can gusset the 45's and not lose any strength.

[914forme]

You need to move the bar forward BTDT, I still have the mounts in a drawer in the shop. That moves it forward enough for my built to get past the oil pan. I think it is 1.5 inches as Kent implied. I used a set of energy suspension parts.

Details on my first engine cross bar build.

If you pick a different spot for the engine rubber motor mounts you can pus forward even farther.

If you still have issues you will need to move the bar forward by moving the bar, with a bend to get it to the proper spot. You can then bolt the part to your bar, or leave it setup on the bar, then weld a plate to bolt it to. Or in your case do it all in bolts. I keep forgetting you don't have a welder.

[flmont]

Yes,. I intend to cut the bar and push engine ahead a 1 1/2 " and re-fab the cross member then do a permanent weld,.. and it sits at 6" of the ground clearance dead center..thats a plus,.

[Chris914n6]

The crossbar is by far the lowest part of the car. No way would I want the oil pan below that.

[flmont]

I would agree after its all set up as well as possible and its still low I may have to do the outfront oil pan in the future if they still make them..but it sits level now and it is centered So iam not sure I can change it...I would certainly add a piece on to the bar to protect the pan no question,..

[flmont]

I just seen your post Kent yea I could give that a try just have a offset hole in the plate will that cause any vibrations,..I guess I could use a thick rubber gasket to help dampen any vibration,..Thanks..

[flmont]

This Way or That Way,..This stuff makes me Crazy.

So I spoke with the Sway Away axle people and they tell me its no problem to move forward or backward with my axle placement as long as I have the correct axle length, So how much out of perfect alignment can that be 2 inches 3 inches, he said (if I understood him correctly ) out of alignment is ok as long as there is no pressure against the CV's cages that's how they break,.I would think not more than 2 inches to be safe. I sure as hell don't know !! Again I don't want axle issues on the road,..But I need to solve this and get back on track .. Thanks..

[914forme]

Axle alignment is based off the degrees in which the axle can travel. Stock CVs can go to 12 degrees. To go farther out you will need to convert. Bus typically handle 17 degree, 944 25 degree, 930 can go up to 45 degrees. 914CVs are weak, and you can get into trouble fast. The axle is about 22 inches long if I remember correctly, so if you play it safe and say go half the CV maximum angle you could move the CV forward or backward by 2.3 inches rounding down to the nearest tenth of an inch.

So the 1.5 Inches you can push forward in the mount using a straight bar is still well with in the acceptable angle allowed by the CV joint. This would be about 3.9 degrees on the CV.

You also have to remember that the suspension will move up and down adding or reducing the angle.

I really kinda cheated out on this one, tossed the math out the window and just went with the 930 CVs 45 degree angle allows for a huge safety margin.

[flmont]

Thank You, Stephen ....I had NO CLUE on the math but I to would do the 930 set up for piece of mind in any driving situation.I need my engine back as much as I can to clear the cold air intake.So Instead of plates on the forward engine mounts,I can now do it on the tranny mount instead..and get alittle room up front..This back and fourth which way is better,..gives me a headache ..LOL Thanks ..Frank

[914forme]

Frank trust me, I redid my engine mounts 100s of times in my head, before I made the first version, then about 2000 more times before I made the next version. Not going to say it is the last version as, I will most likely change my mind again.

Offer still stands as I have a set of mounts that will push the engine bar forwarder or backward 1.5" they are your if it helps. I am not going back to the -4 mounts as I cut them out. Then you just need an adapter to move the trans ears forward or backward the same amount. Renegade makes an adapter for their V8 conversion. I have never seen the adapter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

930 setup is not a cheap solution BTW. You will have to replace everything from the transmission on out. So flanges on the trans early 70s 911 parts, can get pricey. The hub and stub axle also needs to be changed, to match. CVs Empi makes a set with Chrome Moly cages, not sure if they will hold up to huge amounts of abuse. Empi is not know for making the best CVs in the world. If you want a better quality CV, this place will have what you need.

[mepstein]

Frank, aren’t you using the early 911 rear hubs, cv’s, etc.

[flmont]

I would love to check out what your mounts are like are they shown in your build,..


and yes Mepstein,..I intend to,..914forme Iam sure didnt know I have all that stuff didnt get that far in the axle conversation yet...LOL

[914forme]

Just read through this entire thread again. Yes the mounts are shown in my thread.

Easy way like I said way back when is to use 914 to 108mm adapters.

[914forme]

Renegade also makes up a set. "CV JOINTS AND AXLES
The weakest link in the 914 drive line is the CV joint. It can break without any warning and leave you stranded. While the 914 transaxle will withstand as much as 300+ ft. lbs. of torque, the 914 stock axles are only good to about 250 FPT at best. When you finally get accustomed to all that new power, and before you get stranded far from home, consider our complete high performance axle kits for your 914. Included are (4) new high performance CV joints, (4) new boots with retainer rings, (4) custom adapter flanges, (2) powder coated remanufactured axles, new hardware, and even two packets of grease!

$699 HIGH PERFORMANCE AXLE KITS: Good up to 500 hp! Sold per pair. ( picture )"