LED's vs Incandescent Lighting, Some data and discussion Options

[pbanders]

OK, I think I'm "finished" with my LED conversion on my car. I converted nearly every light in the car to LED's. Only lights I didn't convert were the fresh air fan indicator, and the non-illumination lights in the dash cluster. Headlights are WHDZ LED 7" from Amazon, all other bulbs from superbrightleds.com. Total cost including shipping and tax was $304. I originally tried H4 LED conversion bulbs but didn't like them, and went with the WHDZ lights instead, which meet my needs. I also converted my fog/driving lights to LED, the lights I bought were $14 a pair from Amazon, so including those brings me to $318.

My purpose was twofold: better lighting, and lower current draw. I hoped with the lower current draw that issues I've had with parasitic alternator drag pulling down the idle with the lights on would be improved. Both goals were definitely accomplished.

With the stock incandescent lights, if you have the lights on and you're using the low beams, the current draw from all of the lights (marker lights, F/R parking lights, headlights, license plate lights, trunk light, instrument lights) is 19.5 A at 12.8 V. Replacing those lights with the LED's I described above results in a current draw of 5.0 A, a reduction of 14.5 A (~75% reduction).

For the first time since I've owned this car, turning on the lights has no effect on the idle. You could probably do the same thing by changing the alternator to a 70 A or the 160 A conversion, but you wouldn't get the improvement in lighting and it would likely cost a lot more. I can even turn on the fresh air blower, heater, or windshield wipers with the lights on at idle - though I think if I turned them all on simultaneously that would be pushing my luck too far.

The lighting is vastly improved. The marker and parking lights are far brighter, as is the reverse lighting (actually useful, now). I can see things in my trunk. My interior light actually lights my interior. My instrument markings are white now and not a dull yellow. I need to build a PWM dimmer for them that works off of the dimmer knob, as right now, they're "on" or "off" (kind of how LED's work with DC voltage).

Headlights are vastly improved. They're so white that when I see cars with halogen lights they look like kerosene lanterns. I'm not a big fan of the WHDZ low beams (not as uniform a pattern as I'd like), but in combo with my fog/driving lights, they're awesome. The WHDZ high beams are excellent, great pattern and super throw.

IMO, it's a good upgrade for our aging cars. Superbrightled's has a nice vehicle system that will tell you all the lights you need. You can find the WHDZ lights on Amazon easily if you search for "WHDZ", they're $64 ea. Or, you can go with the Truck-Lites (~$170 ea) or the GE Nighthawks (~$220). There are some other projector-style LED lights on Amazon if you want to go that way.

Some pics below....

[matthepcat]

Great write up and thanks for providing actual before and after results!

I'm a huge fan of LEDs, and have been using them on my cars since about 2008.

LED options have exploded over the last 5 years and there is really no reason not to use them on classic cars.

[maf914]

Thanks for a great write-up and for listing your sources. I would like to make several of these upgrades to my lighting system.

I do have a question regarding the WHDZ LED 7" from Amazon. Why in the Amazon description/listing are they indicated to be for Jeep applications, and not simply 7" replacement headlights. Is there some significance to this? Or is it a matter of "off road use only"?

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url...s=WHDZ+LED+7%22

[N_Jay]

Any chance you can list the specific bulbs you use and sources?
Any lessons learned along that way, such as bulbs that seemed right but did not fit?

[sfrenck]

Any chance you can list the specific bulbs you use and sources?
Any lessons learned along that way, such as bulbs that seemed right but did not fit?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I'm looking for the fog lights in particular

[Sandy Teener]

I did the same to my headlights and am super happy with the difference and safety of nighttime illumination. I also changed out the dash lights to LED because with the new headlights being so bright, it made my dials seem even dimmer! Sure beats driving by "candlelight"!

[Bartlett 914]

I recently installed headlights from Vintagecarleds.com. I don't remember what i paid but a lot less than the GE nighthawk ones. I am really happy with the bright lights. Great addition. I have done a lot of other lights. I did have issues with Superbrightleds. I cannot remember which ones but I think it was the tail lights. I also added lighting to illuminate the floor foot well. This replaced the backpad light and is a huge improvement. The backpad light just blinds me.

[pbanders]

Any chance you can list the specific bulbs you use and sources?
Any lessons learned along that way, such as bulbs that seemed right but did not fit?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I'm looking for the fog lights in particular

For the majority of the lights, superbrightleds.com has a vehicle configurator, just enter your make/model/year and they tell you what you need. I don't have the front side marker lights, and I have Euro front buckets, so my configuration may be different than yours, here's what I bought from them:

• Qty. 4 of the 1156 bulbs, cool white (backup and rear turn) - https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/ta...it-car/163/724/
• Qty. 4 of the 1157 bulbs, cool white (front parking/turn, rear parking/brake) - https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/ta...ofit/2625/5697/
• Qty. 5 of the BA9 LED's, cool white (rear marker, license plate, trunk light) - https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/ba...-car/2077/4721/
• Qty. 2 of the 194 LED's, cool white (Euro bucket front marker) - https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/mi...it-car/206/919/
• Qty. 5 of the BA7 LED's, cool white (instrument illumination) - https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/ba...ofit-car/10/74/
• Qty. 1 of the 578 LED, cool white (interior light) - https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/fe...-car/3582/7660/

The headlights are WHDZ 7" Round LED, with hi/lo beam and standard H4 plug (plugs right into your stock headlight harness socket). Casings are aluminum with locator tabs that correctly position the light in your 914's headlight mount slots. Lens is polycarbonate plastic with a clear and smooth surface. Low beam is in the top half of the light, high beam in the bottom half (different reflector designs). Low beams use 1.8 A, high beam uses 3.6 A (both top and bottom on). Ad copy says "highway approved for all 50 states", is this true? Who knows. While it says it's for Jeep Wrangler, it fits any standard 7" headlight housing and H4 connector. There is no DRL or "Angel Eye" illumination or connector.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B019I0UBLU

The fog/driving lights are "TTX LIGHTING - 4 Inch 27W Round LED Work Light 30 Degree Spot Beam DC 9-75V 2430 Lumens". No idea of if these are DOT approved, take your own risk using these. Actual OD is about 1/8" smaller than the ID of the stock 914 "early" fog light opening. Wires are tinned and stripped, I crimped on spade connectors to connect to the 914's stock fog lamp wiring. They come with a U bracket bottom mount. I attached their mount, then fabricated an adapter using 3/4" x 3/32" zinc-plated steel strip from ACE Hardware. The adapter is 75 mm long, with 90 deg bends at 25 mm and 50 mm (see pics below). Hole positions were determined by test fitting to the car. Beam pattern on these lights is hardly "spot", they're more diffuse, but in actual use in combination with the WHDZ headlights, this is exactly what I wanted, as they fill in the pattern and provide excellent illumination. Casing is aluminum and lens is polycarbonate, light is from an array of LED's.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NAR0S20/

Fog/driving light adapter mounted to the stock 914 fog light captive nut, installed in the car.



View of the adapter mounted to the fog/driving light



Another view of the adapter mounted to the fog/driving light (final hole for mounting to the 914 fog light captive nut not yet drilled in this pic)

[pbanders]

I knew I'd forget something. Also buy qty. 2 of the load resistor kit. You need this for a phantom load on the turn signal circuit so that there's enough current for the stock mechanical turn signal flasher to operate. The flasher uses a coil that doesn't get enough current with LED's to operate correctly, you get a "fast flash" like you have a bulb out, or possibly no flash at all. You only need two of these, not four, one on each side provides enough load for the front and rear circuits. I mounted mine in the trunk because it was easier to access the wiring than at the front buckets. You can see it (barely) in the picture I show above of my trunk light illumination, it's under the taillight bucket, attached to the trunk wall. You could put it on top of the bumper recess in the trunk if you want, but you'll have to extend the wires or remove the taillight bucket (PITA) to gain access for drilling.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/fl...ng-fix/190/831/

[pbanders]

I recently installed headlights from Vintagecarleds.com. I don't remember what i paid but a lot less than the GE nighthawk ones. I am really happy with the bright lights. Great addition. I have done a lot of other lights. I did have issues with Superbrightleds. I cannot remember which ones but I think it was the tail lights. I also added lighting to illuminate the floor foot well. This replaced the backpad light and is a huge improvement. The backpad light just blinds me.

Nice mod to the interior lights, footwell lighting is nice, I have it in my Boxster. Are your headlights like mine or are they an array or projector style? A pic would be nice.

[pbanders]

whoops, made accidental double post. Is there any way to delete a posting made in error?

[timothy_nd28]

I also agree with the LED market explosion over the past few years, I made a pretty good side hobby by using them in my instrument gauge lighting upgrades.

My issue would be the main headlights. The LED versions are pricey and since they did away with lead solder, this new solder stuff is pure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif)

The LED headlights have their own internal powersupply, and it seems the unit as a whole gets pretty hot. Since the new solder has issues with thermo-cycling, you end up with cold solder joints. How many of you guys had a bad GPU in your laptop due to this junk solder?

I replaced 10 incandescent lightbulbs in my house to the new GE LED's. Its only been 8 months, and 6 out of ten have either failed (completely off) or its dim and flickering. These are failing due to the solder joints within the powersupply, very depressing. I feel we are all guinea pigs testing out these products, no one really knows how long it will last.

[Spoke]

...here's what I bought from them:

• Qty. 4 of the 1156 bulbs, cool white (backup and rear turn)
• Qty. 4 of the 1157 bulbs, cool white (front parking/turn, rear parking/brake)

Brad, I'm curious why you purchased white LEDs to put behind colored lenses? Much of the light output of the LEDs is filtered out by the red (brake) or amber (turnsignal) lens. The most efficient light output will be realized when the LED color matches the lens color.

Also, for the load resistors to keep the OEM flasher happy. Keeping with your "reduce the electrical load" campaign, the load resistors you've added take you right back to the power (21W) of the turnsignal bulbs instead of a nice 2-4W for LEDs. Plus you need to crimp these resistors on existing wiring thus damaging the wire and insulation.

Perhaps another path for much lower turnsignal power and no wire crimping is to replace the flasher with EP26 flasher available everywhere. The one issue with EP26 is it doesn't power the 4th terminal needed to power the tach turnsignal indicators. There are easy workarounds for the lack of a powered 4th terminal again requiring no cutting or wire crimping.

[pbanders]

I also agree with the LED market explosion over the past few years, I made a pretty good side hobby by using them in my instrument gauge lighting upgrades.

My issue would be the main headlights. The LED versions are pricey and since they did away with lead solder, this new solder stuff is pure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif)

The LED headlights have their own internal powersupply, and it seems the unit as a whole gets pretty hot. Since the new solder has issues with thermo-cycling, you end up with cold solder joints. How many of you guys had a bad GPU in your laptop due to this junk solder?

I replaced 10 incandescent lightbulbs in my house to the new GE LED's. Its only been 8 months, and 6 out of ten have either failed (completely off) or its dim and flickering. These are failing due to the solder joints within the powersupply, very depressing. I feel we are all guinea pigs testing out these products, no one really knows how long it will last.

Time will tell if the headlights I used (and the other lights, for that matter) are reliable in operation. At this price point, I'm taking a risk, but since these lights seem almost physically identical to the more expensive GE and Truck-Lite headlights, I suspect reliability will be similar.

FWIW, I have dozens of cheap Feit LED bulbs (Costco) in my house that have been in operation for over a year, one failure so far. That's a lot better than the old Feit CFL's, which would fail regularly from ballast overeheating.

I've reflowed many GPU's and CPU's in game systems and laptops due to BGA cracking. It's usually due to inadequate thermal design. In tight system like laptops it's hard to do much about it, but in more open systems you add a heatsink or fan and often prevent it from happening again.

[N_Jay]

I knew I'd forget something. Also buy qty. 2 of the load resistor kit. You need this for a phantom load on the turn signal circuit so that there's enough current for the stock mechanical turn signal flasher to operate. The flasher uses a coil that doesn't get enough current with LED's to operate correctly, you get a "fast flash" like you have a bulb out, or possibly no flash at all.

I have not looked, I assume our flasher relay is not a standard part, and is not easily replaced with an LED compatible unit

[pbanders]

...here's what I bought from them:

• Qty. 4 of the 1156 bulbs, cool white (backup and rear turn)
• Qty. 4 of the 1157 bulbs, cool white (front parking/turn, rear parking/brake)

Brad, I'm curious why you purchased white LEDs to put behind colored lenses? Much of the light output of the LEDs is filtered out by the red (brake) or amber (turnsignal) lens. The most efficient light output will be realized when the LED color matches the lens color.

Also, for the load resistors to keep the OEM flasher happy. Keeping with your "reduce the electrical load" campaign, the load resistors you've added take you right back to the power (21W) of the turnsignal bulbs instead of a nice 2-4W for LEDs. Plus you need to crimp these resistors on existing wiring thus damaging the wire and insulation.

Perhaps another path for much lower turnsignal power and no wire crimping is to replace the flasher with EP26 flasher available everywhere. The one issue with EP26 is it doesn't power the 4th terminal needed to power the tach turnsignal indicators. There are easy workarounds for the lack of a powered 4th terminal again requiring no cutting or wire crimping.

I purchased white LED's because the bulbs they replaced were "white" (more like yellow) light. The LED's are very bright, far brighter than stock incandescent lights, even behind the colored lenses. Color looks the same or good enough for me. Not sure I need or want them to be brighter.

Turn signals are only on when needed, not in continuous operation. There's no current through the load resistor when they're not being used, so it's not an issue for continuous current draw.

The resistors come with inline crimp terminals that penetrate the wiring. Another solution would be to pull the connector at the light and use an inline branch connector. The inline connectors worked fine and were easy to use, I'm not planning on removing them.

The EP26 solution is a good idea, but as you point out, has a number of drawbacks. Load resistors were a simpler solution for me.

[bandjoey]

Been waiting for Mikeys headlight bucket rebuild kit to add the LEDs. However. With the price dropping it looks like I've saved money by waiting. (and I didn't even use Gieco (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) )

[pbanders]

My aiming yesterday was seat-of-the-pants, I knew it was off and proper aiming would probably fix most of the pattern problems I was having. I followed the procedure in the factory workshop manual, the lights were aimed way low and the passenger light was too far to the right. Set them up correctly and the low beam pattern is vastly better. The "X" artifact is gone (it was the throw part of the pattern being imaged on the ground) and the pattern is uniform and bright. A few pics below. High beam throw is spectacular, I can see at least a half mile on a dark open road. Definitely worth taking the time to do the aiming properly, otherwise you won't get full performance from your headlights, regardless of the type.

Simple explanation of the aiming procedure. Park 5 meters squarely in front of a wall on a flat, level surface. Make marks on the wall directly in front of the center of each light (lights are 42" apart, measure from floor to your light's center for the height. Make a second mark below that's 1 percent of the distance you're away from the wall (if you're at 5 meters, then 5 cm below). Adjust headlight so that the cutoff is right at the second mark for each light (see pic below). If you want to be more precise, have someone sit in the driver's seat while doing the adjustment to account for driver weight.

Aiming diagram


Low beam pattern after proper aiming


High beam with fog/driving pattern after proper aiming

[brownaar]

Brad,
Did you have any issues with the LED bulbs? I replaced my marker, turn, brake, and back-up lights with the appropriate LED bulbs and my lights do weird things. The driver's brake light flashes with the driver's turn signal. One front side marker flashes with the turn signal but the other one doesn't flash with it's corresponding turn signal. I did install the load resistors on the rear turn signal circuits. Everything works normally when I put the regular bulbs back in. Just curious if you had a similar experience.
Thanks,
Aaron

[Coondog]

I am runnng LEDs on everything but my Fogs "pilots" no light hyper blinking problems.