Turbocharging a type 4 Options

[Mueller]

On the engine type, it has to be either Porsche block or an engine type that was supplied in a Porsche. So an Audi/924 engine or a T4/914 qualifies, unfortunately T1 doesn't.

There is an option to do non-traditional engines like Cayenne, Macan, 928, 944, etc., but 2 things about that:
1. Switching engine/chassis type puts you into a different class (GTP) that basically no one runs in.
2. Doing a Cayenne, Macan, etc. probably would be even less economical than a T4, and at the moment those engines are not classified for PCA Club Racing. For those engines I'm not aware of off the shelf performance parts like camshafts, intake manifolds, etc. or that anyone has invested in learning how to extract power out of the heads. Breaking new ground sounds like $$$$ to me. If I could use one of those engines, I'd need it to make ~150 hp/L, which is where the modern engines seem to fall on the hp to weight index for PCA club racing.

Base Macan motors are in the 300+ hp stock with plenty of torque, the S model is 400+ for hp and torque...no need for different cams!

No biggie for me, I'll never have a race car so classification is no big deal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Andyrew]

He needs to be in the 1.8 to 2.0L range to run a turbo.

If he went water cooled he could run a vw 2.0L block from a 924. Im not sure if a better designed DOHC head would fit on that block but that would be a killer setup and let you make a ton of potential power.

[stownsen914]

He needs to be in the 1.8 to 2.0L range to run a turbo.

If he went water cooled he could run a vw 2.0L block from a 924. Im not sure if a better designed DOHC head would fit on that block but that would be a killer setup and let you make a ton of potential power.

Interesting thought on swapping heads. PCA rules DO allow switching heads. Only the block has to be Porsche (or T4 or Audi/924).

I'm probably showing my ignorance of 4 bangers here, but I wonder if a T1 head be massaged to fit on a T4 engine ...

[ThePaintedMan]

Well if you insist on the Type 4 route, it would probably be easiest to go to Wasserboxer heads then. No way the Type 1 heads would ever fit - dimensions are way different. With the WBX heads you could actually make that thing live, sort of like a 4-cylinder 962 engine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[HAM Inc]

If you want to go T4 and can swap to any head, find some Engine Plus heads. They were most popular in Europe.

As for T1 heads, like I said before; where there's a wallet there's a way.

Because of the wider bore center of the T4 you'd want to start with a set of 4 individual heads, like the scats. They would then need major mods to work with the T4 bolt pattern and lifter spacing.

Bring a big pile of $$ and a shovel.

[Andyrew]

Well if you insist on the Type 4 route, it would probably be easiest to go to Wasserboxer heads then. No way the Type 1 heads would ever fit - dimensions are way different. With the WBX heads you could actually make that thing live, sort of like a 4-cylinder 962 engine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I like the wasserboxer head idea.

Run enough radiator and you can keep the damn thing cool for racing. You'll be generating a lot of heat with a turbo and really longevity is the key to racing.


I dont think you should be shoveling into R+D on anything... Off the shelf parts and standard machining is the key IMHO.

[Mueller]

Still going to be some work due to the passages that go to and from the block.


Some pictures of someone converting an air cooled cylinder to watercooled (might be oil cooled from another post)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=584970

[HAM Inc]

Hate to spoil the Wasser fun, but... check the bore center. IIRC it's closer to the T1, which is waaay off from the T4. Not to mention the lifter spacing is off.

It will definitely not be an off the shelf deal. Nowhere near plug and play, even if the exhaust ports can be opened enough (and I don't think they can, but could be wrong) to support a 80+% ex/in flow ratio where intakes are moving in the ballpark of 180-200cfm at .5 lift, which I suspect you'll require for 175hp/l

IMO, you need to keep looking.

Len

[Mueller]

Hate to spoil the Wasser fun, but... check the bore center. IIRC it's closer to the T1, which is waaay off from the T4. Not to mention the lifter spacing is off.

It will definitely not be an off the shelf deal. Nowhere near plug and play, even if the exhaust ports can be opened enough (and I don't think they can, but could be wrong) to support a 80+% ex/in flow ratio where intakes are moving in the ballpark of 180-200cfm at .5 lift, which I suspect you'll require for 175hp/l

IMO, you need to keep looking.

Len

Bummer, reality always getting in the way....

I figured it was too good to be true, I did find someone running those heads on a type I...

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.ph...37&t=141797

[ChrisFoley]

I used to have pictures of a SCCA GT3 914 engine that was a T4 with watercooled heads.
Someone welded jackets onto a pair of OE heads.

[HAM Inc]

I used to have pictures of a SCCA GT3 914 engine that was a T4 with watercooled heads.
Someone welded jackets onto a pair of OE heads.

That would be a hell of a lot easier than adapting something from another engine.

But it too would not be for the faint of wallet, unless one could do the work themselves.

[Jetsetsurfshop]

If you want to go T4 and can swap to any head, find some Engine Plus heads. They were most popular in Europe.

As for T1 heads, like I said before; where there's a wallet there's a way.

Because of the wider bore center of the T4 you'd want to start with a set of 4 individual heads, like the scats. They would then need major mods to work with the T4 bolt pattern and lifter spacing.

Bring a big pile of $$ and a shovel.

Think the Engine Plus heads will handle the heat?
Did they move the exhaust port to the ends?
Were they quality casting?
I'm full of questions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[Mueller]

If you want to go T4 and can swap to any head, find some Engine Plus heads. They were most popular in Europe.

As for T1 heads, like I said before; where there's a wallet there's a way.

Because of the wider bore center of the T4 you'd want to start with a set of 4 individual heads, like the scats. They would then need major mods to work with the T4 bolt pattern and lifter spacing.

Bring a big pile of $$ and a shovel.

Think the Engine Plus heads will handle the heat?
Did they move the exhaust port to the ends?
Were they quality casting?
I'm full of questions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

If I read that one post I added correctly, it looks like no longer available new.

Yes to the Type I exhaust ports.

[Andyrew]

For the cost of a tig welder and some aluminum that would be a killer way of doing it.

[HAM Inc]

For the cost of a tig welder and some aluminum and a skillful weldor with a few years of experience that would be a killer way of doing it.

Fixed that for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Andyrew]

For the cost of a tig welder and some aluminum and a skillful weldor with a few years of experience that would be a killer way of doing it.

Fixed that for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

Meh its just aluminum, how much different can it be than steel (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[Mueller]

TIG welder (AC/DC) = check
Machine shop = check
Certified welder (expired) = check

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/MDB2.gif)

[HAM Inc]

TIG welder (AC/DC) = check
Machine shop = check
Certified welder (expired) = check

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/MDB2.gif)

This is the sort of project that I think would be cool for a highly skilled, well equipped enthusiast. Someone with the know how, the time, and finances to give it a go.
You should give this a try.

[stownsen914]

I understand that the water jacket idea had been done before on a 911 too. Might have been Grady Clay? Read about it on the Pelican forum at one point.

And, well, I've done a good but of MIG, but no TIG, so that might be a bit ambitious for me. Very cool idea though (pun intended!)

[Randal]

TIG welder (AC/DC) = check
Machine shop = check
Certified welder (expired) = check

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/MDB2.gif)

This is the sort of project that I think would be cool for a highly skilled, well equipped enthusiast. Someone with the know how, the time, and finances to give it a go.
You should give this a try.

How much time do you estimate that job would take you in hours Len? Just like to have a baseline of time and or related cost. Thanks.