BUILD-OFF CHALLENGE: Tygaboy's '75 LS3, It seemed a good idea at the time... Options

[tygaboy]

OK, so here's the final, final before committing to fully welding everything.

No shims, deal level.

1.7 and 1.6 degrees negative camber.

I have to say, I can't believe how evenly this all turned out. Not bad for an amateur... I'll take it!

[sixnotfour]

I used 4 jack stands on a Corvette at Lemans Classic,,,this guy was laughing , but he was slower..427 corvettes...

great documentation..welder up

[mepstein]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) Now what about the steel roof. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

I may have kits available in 2020. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That would be cool. I'll take one.
@ChrisFoley

[tygaboy]

And in case you were wondering why I made those thinner stainless washers or why I want to run without them. 16 x 9 with 245s, no wheel spacers.

I suspect I'll want to roll that remaining lip, regardless.

As I said earlier: She is one wide girl! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[tygaboy]

I was able to speak with Chuck at Elephant Racing late this afternoon. He verified my suspicions: The reason for the "large stainless washers" is to provide a smooth thrust surface for the bronze bushing.

Remember, the Elephant kit assumes it's being installed in a standard 914, where the inside surface of the suspension console has that serrated area that would foul the edge of the bronze bushing.

So... given the Tangerine kit has this nice, smooth, flat surface on both ends, I can safely eliminate these things, move the trailing arm inboard that little bit more and gain a smidge more outer tire clearance! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) Maybe i can get away without rolling the flare.

I simply have to make up the dimensional change on the other end of the trailing arm pivot shaft. No biggie.

@914forme - Stephen, I suspect you're pretty self sufficient re: fabbing stuff, but if needed, I'd be happy to cut you a set of these stainless washers. Just let me know.

[horizontally-opposed]

And in case you were wondering why I made those thinner stainless washers or why I want to run without them. 16 x 9 with 245s, no wheel spacers.

I suspect I'll want to roll that remaining lip, regardless.

As I said earlier: She is one wide girl! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

^ Car is gonna look good.

[Jeff Hail]

Triple double checking all the measurements. In order to do that, and because I'm running late Carrera hub-centric hubs, I have to install the axles in order to ensure there's no play in the position of the wheel.

To do all this work, you have to climb in and out from under the car 3486 times. How may times did I smack my head on the inner CV joints? I don't know because I have amnesia from multiple blunt force head traumas... (literally = (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) )

3,488

You could just put 2 washers on one side and not have to do anything Chris (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[tygaboy]

Triple double checking all the measurements. In order to do that, and because I'm running late Carrera hub-centric hubs, I have to install the axles in order to ensure there's no play in the position of the wheel.

To do all this work, you have to climb in and out from under the car 3486 times. How may times did I smack my head on the inner CV joints? I don't know because I have amnesia from multiple blunt force head traumas... (literally = (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) )

3,488

You could just put 2 washers on one side and not have to do anything Chris (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

Jeff - Ha! I stopped counting at 3237 so 3486 was just a guess. Maybe it was closer to your #! And yep on on the washer location.

One other question: I haven't yet measured it but I have what seems like too much side-to-side trailing arm movement. I asked @ChrisFoley and he suggested .010. When I spoke with Elephant, they said they like .030.
If needed, I can machine the shoulder of the Elephant shaft to tighten it up to get whatever I want.
Any experience /suggestions with this?

[Jeff Hail]

Triple double checking all the measurements. In order to do that, and because I'm running late Carrera hub-centric hubs, I have to install the axles in order to ensure there's no play in the position of the wheel.

To do all this work, you have to climb in and out from under the car 3486 times. How may times did I smack my head on the inner CV joints? I don't know because I have amnesia from multiple blunt force head traumas... (literally = (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) )

3,488

You could just put 2 washers on one side and not have to do anything Chris (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

Jeff - Ha! I stopped counting at 3237 so 3486 was just a guess. Maybe it was closer to your #! And yep on on the washer location.

One other question: I haven't yet measured it but I have what seems like too much side-to-side trailing arm movement. I asked @ChrisFoley and he suggested .010. When I spoke with Elephant, they said they like .030.
If needed, I can machine the shoulder of the Elephant shaft to tighten it up to get whatever I want.
Any experience /suggestions with this?

First put the big thick washers back in on both sides and cinch everything up tight. Make sure you are not bottomed out on the end of the stud threads.

If its still lose of rocks -

Unscrew the stud from the shaft chuck it in a lathe and spot face it or hit it with a file just make sure its square. Just need to touch it, don't want to crush the bronze. 0.10 is right.

Also get everything mounted up snug and check the poly bushings in the trailing arm bores to see if they rock a little. The trailing arms bores were most likely drawn on a mandrel and some are lose, others tight. Get the arm horizontal and rock it back and forth laterally. If its lose you will see what I mean by feel. If its super lose you can use thin shim stock as a sleeve inside the bore around the poly like a wrap. Little dab of JB at 6 and 12 o'clock to keep it in place inside the bore. If you go that way don't forget to drill the hole through the shim for the zerk fitting.

Easy way is to make a big collet out of some round tube, slice it half like a clam shell and squeeze the training arms bores a bit like holding a baseball bat.

[dr.tim]

When I installed Chris's kit I built additional camber into the pick-ups figuring that I could always add more shims.. but I cannot take out no shims. If a day comes when you want more than 1.6 degrees of camber, it wouldn't hurt to have it available.

Also, be aware of the toe curve and be sure to have the adjustable range you want at the ride-height you intend to run.



I love keeping up with this build--thank you for the play-by-play.

[tygaboy]

Jeff - I'll check all the items you mentioned. Given what I've seen so far, I think just the pivot shaft and the fix will be removing the appropriate amount off one end.

I'll report back on the solution once I'm sure what's needed.

[tygaboy]

When I installed Chris's kit I built additional camber into the pick-ups figuring that I could always add more shims.. but I cannot take out no shims. If a day comes when you want more than 1.6 degrees of camber, it wouldn't hurt to have it available.

Also, be aware of the toe curve and be sure to have the adjustable range you want at the ride-height you intend to run.

I love keeping up with this build--thank you for the play-by-play.

@dr.tim - All measurement checking was done at my best estimate of target ride height. And re: toe, it was done with the trailing arm mount in the middle of its adjustment range.

I appreciate the reminder as it's uber critical to be sure you're keeping track of all the variables as this kit is going in. I happily confess, at the end of each work session during this install, I'm mentally exhausted.

[tygaboy]

NOTE to others doing this install
The sleeve that aligns the two sides of the fixture does have a bit of movement. Let's be fair: it's a tube slipped into a tube, not a precision milled clamping device. And it works just fine. That said:

When the fixture is in the car and the car is right side up, any play in the sleeve sags the inside of the two parts downward, "adding" negative camber.

If your car is on a rotisserie, and you work on it upside down, any play "removes" negative camber. I need to combat that on all fronts! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

Jeff measured 1.375 and 1.5 negative camber ahead of final welding. I have 1.6 and 1.7. My chassis will never be a race car so this seems well in range for me.

That said (and save your "Dude, that's a bit hillbilly!" comments. I know it is), based on the static measurements I had ahead of final welding, I wanted to "encourage" any welding-induced distortion to add negative camber and toe in.

So, to encourage the toe, I used a small spacer between the fixture and that bar clamped to it. For camber, the 4x4/floor jack removes the play at the sleeve and helps camber stay where it is, maybe add a bit more as it's being welded. And it's not like the car is supported by it! It's just pushing out any sleeve play, plus a bit of force.

Finally, as mentioned, the weld sequence is outside/top, inside lower to further encourage negative camber.

[Andyrew]

I like the solution! Very simple and effective!

You dont want to know my plan for fixing some twist in my chassis if you think this is "redneck" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[tygaboy]

@Andyrew asked "Make the Noise....!"


OK! OK! Volume UP, everybody!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPMOtSBjgpk

[tygaboy]

great documentation..welder up

Well, OK then!

My TIG skills seem to be improving every day. It's always fun welding .125 wall tubing to .050 sheet metal. The long is double layer in this area but there are random, small gaps between the walls so things will be going well and all of a sudden "BOOM"! Hole blown.
But this section went well. But you'll see no pics of the couple of minor spots that didn't! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Most all of these areas get covered up with the sheet metal support structure so no biggie on how they look, so long as they are strong.

Best of all is that after welding all the seams, I installed the trailing arms and the camber checks the same as before final welding. HOO f-ing RAY!

[Andyrew]

@Andyrew asked "Make the Noise....!"


OK! OK! Volume UP, everybody!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPMOtSBjgpk

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[tygaboy]

Getting the first of the sheet metal components trimmed and fit. This one is almost ready for final welding.
I can't say enough about this Tangerine product! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

On a less happy front, the latest biopsy from my face came back as melanoma. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Surgery is scheduled for December 23. Merry Christmas to me...
That said, this latest spot (this is #3 on my face) is the absolute earliest stage melanoma can be, so there's that.

As I said to the Dr.s who did my earlier surgeries: "Scars on my face simply add to my already ruggedly handsome good looks." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[dan10101]

Getting the first of the sheet metal components trimmed and fit. This one is almost ready for final welding.
I can't say enough about this Tangerine product! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

On a less happy front, the latest biopsy from my face came back as melanoma. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Surgery is scheduled for December 23. Merry Christmas to me...
That said, this latest spot (this is #3 on my face) is the absolute earliest stage melanoma can be, so there's that.

As I said to the Dr.s who did my earlier surgeries: "Scars on my face simply add to my already ruggedly handsome good looks." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

Dude, I think I can speak for all of us... You're good looking enough, so stop with all this crap!.

Seriously, We're behind you, (hopefully way behind you..)

No, but really seriously, get back to work.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) Humor is the best medicine.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

[Krieger]

X,O my brother. Sounds like you and your doctor are out in front of this. Crappy to get through, but you will. Keep on keeping on!