BUILD-OFF CHALLENGE: Tygaboy's '75 LS3, It seemed a good idea at the time... Options

[Mueller]

That LS motor would fit perfectly into my Volvo 242 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

[live free & drive]

Send it away to get blasted and painted and tell them to take their time - when you pick it up in a year or so you'll be re-motivated by the change -it's so close!

[914forme]

Chris, thank you for the call.

I will say this, you do what is right for you. I get where you are coming from, and if you achieved everything you wanted to, then move onto the next big adventure. And I will be watching and cheering you on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[tygaboy]

We went for our longest drive yet yesterday. Cooling system is all dialed in and performing as expected. Runs like a champ. Next, I need to sort the front suspension. I think it needs lighter torsion bars. I have 21s in there now, going to 19.

Here's very brief clip of our arrival at a friend's shop. Volume up!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnRiJ8XZqWA

[Krieger]

IIRC you have Koni Sport shocks. Are they set to full soft?

[tygaboy]

IIRC you have Koni Sport shocks. Are they set to full soft?

@Krieger Andy - I do and they are all but full soft, maybe 1/4 turn out.
It feels too stiff, it's super darty and doesn't want to self center. I think it's a combo of the bars, caster, which is .2 UNDER minimum spec (call if you really want to know why) and toe settings. Plus, those are 225s on 8" fronts - that's can't be helping.
But hey, that's why they call this part the Development stage!

But don't we make a handsome couple? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Chris914n6]

Confused.

I have a non running 914 project and I go to car shows to hang out with 914 peeps.

You have a running 914 project, make it to a car show, and bail.

Seems we are not the same kind of Chris'

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Also I have stock ft shocks and stock 19mm 911 torsens with the 22mm stock sway and I think it's too stiff too, at least in my cracked asphalt hood. I'm hoping a rear sway knocks out some understeer.

PS. seeing your old school wheels is making me want to make mine fit

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1618170677.1.jpg)

[Curbandgutter]

[quote name='tygaboy' date='Apr 11 2021, 09:26 AM' post='2907243']
We went for our longest drive yet yesterday. Cooling system is all dialed in and performing as expected. Runs like a champ. Next, I need to sort the front suspension. I think it needs lighter torsion bars. I have 21s in there now, going to 19.

Here's very brief clip of our arrival at a friend's shop. Volume up!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnRiJ8XZqWA
Sounds very nasty.

[Andyrew]

Chris,

Do you have a front sway bar? I'd unhook that before you remove the T bars

I have 21's on the front with no sway and koni yellows set almost to full soft. 225 springs in the rear with koni yellows (and no sway bar).

The 21's are certainly stiff, but IMHO not overly stiff. I am always on the side of softer suspension leads to better on road compliance.


Oddly my setup works very well. Its a hair darty but I like that. I have no issues with 120+mph pulls on pot hole 2ln roads as evident from my videos...

Also whats your toe setting?

[tygaboy]

Chris,

Do you have a front sway bar? I'd unhook that before you remove the T bars

I have 21's on the front with no sway and koni yellows set almost to full soft. 225 springs in the rear with koni yellows (and no sway bar).

The 21's are certainly stiff, but IMHO not overly stiff. I am always on the side of softer suspension leads to better on road compliance.


Oddly my setup works very well. Its a hair darty but I like that. I have no issues with 120+mph pulls on pot hole 2ln roads as evident from my videos...

Also whats your toe setting?

@Andyrew Andrew, I'll give that try. We have the same set up: 21mm fronts, 225# rears, no rear sway bar. I have to believe being under spec on caster has some measurable impact but let's see what the "no front sway bar" does for me. Thanks for the suggestion - I'll report back on results.

[tazz9924]

Chris,

Do you have a front sway bar? I'd unhook that before you remove the T bars

I have 21's on the front with no sway and koni yellows set almost to full soft. 225 springs in the rear with koni yellows (and no sway bar).

The 21's are certainly stiff, but IMHO not overly stiff. I am always on the side of softer suspension leads to better on road compliance.


Oddly my setup works very well. Its a hair darty but I like that. I have no issues with 120+mph pulls on pot hole 2ln roads as evident from my videos...

Also whats your toe setting?

@Andyrew Andrew, I'll give that try. We have the same set up: 21 fronts, 225 rears, no rear sway bar. I have to believe being under spec on caster has some measurable impact but let's see what the "no front sway bar" does for me. Thanks for the suggestion - I'll report back on results.

That car is lowered right? have you addressed bump steer? that could help with the dartyness.

[Andyrew]

Im pretty sure he has raised spindals, so bump steer shouldnt be an issue.

[strawman]

I'm using the stock 18.8mm 911 torsion bars on my Suby-powered 914, with raised (30mm) spindles on the Bilstein strut tubes. The front Billy Sports are 911 valved, and they're mounted in Ground Control camber/caster plates. I have a Lemforder-based Turbo tie-rod setup, although I switched to heim joints on the outers in my custom fabbed bumpsteer eliminator setup (see post #208 at Suby Rustoration). The rear springs are 250 inch/lbs Eibachs on a Ground Control coilover design, over Billy Sports. I use a hollow 22mm Tarett Racing front sway bar, with no rear sway bar. I'm using Elephant Racing polybronze bushings front and rear, and my rear trailing arms are stiffened with crosstubes. I seam-welded the chassis when it was on my rotisserie a few years ago, and I've got a GT chassis kit and inner longitudinal kit welded-in; I did everything I could to stiffen the chassis while also avoiding the installation of a cage.

I just switched to 225-45-17s Kumho V730s up front and 255-40-17s in the rear. The guys at Elephant Racing worried that the stock 911 Billy Sports would be too stiff for a 914, but the extra weight of the cooling system up front seems to make them work well on my car. The car is neutral even at the speeds my car can generate on an autocross track, and not too jarring on the street -- but just stiff enough that my wife will not go for a multiple hour ride in it. That is why I bought another 914 for her right after the last WCR in Petaluma!

I wonder if you'd enjoy stock 911 size torsions better... I've ridden in 911s with both the stock 18.8mm bars and in another that I remember to have had 22mm hollow Sander torsion bars, and the latter almost knocked my fillings out (although it had a lot more go-fast goodies, too).

[tygaboy]

@Andyrew @strawman My front set up:
- 20 mm raised spindles
- Elephant bump steer kit
- Elephant spherical bushing
- Elephant quick adjust camber plates
- Elephant bladed sway bar with the medium stiff blade (it's the lighter of the two options)
- Lemforder Turbo tie rod kit (but with the Elephant bump steer tie rod ends)

The bump steer was set/checked as part of the alignment process at Roger Kraus Racing.

One issue that's not evident in the attached pics (taken before the alignment and final assembly so yes, there are loose or missing fasteners) is that, on my chassis, the fancy-schmancy camber plates interfere with the chassis before the strut can be tipped back far enough to get the caster in spec. Hence the .2 degrees under minimum.

I got a set of Tarrett monoball camber plates that I'm planning to swap in as the are physically smaller at the point they pass through the chassis and will allow me to get more caster. I'll also swap in the 19mm torsion bars.

I'll give Andrew's sway bar disconnect a try but that seems counter-intuitive, give how adding a sway bar to these cars is one of the the mods that gets great results. I know, I have a giant V8 and heavy trans, but still.

Thanks for your input and any other suggestions or observations!

[sixnotfour]

LS Fest,, Vegas.. Exhibition Class,,, Have some Fun....

[Krieger]

I'm curious about the air pressures your running in the tires. Both of my cars I use near stock 27 front, 29 rear cold to start with. At the autocross/track I adjust accordingly with temp gauge. For the street I do not bother. I have found this works well for all the different tires compounds and widths I have used. 205/225. Soft compoud/summer high perfomance. It seems to be appropriate for the weight of the car. Where are you at Chris?

[BIGKAT_83]

LS Fest,, Vegas.. Exhibition Class,,, Have some Fun....

I'll be there. Leaving this Thursday. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Retroracer]

@tygaboy Chris - on handling: would suggest one change at a time (which I'm sure you're thinking too), but caster has to be a leading suspect - especially if the steering is not self-centering. You don't specify your toe setting; going with heavy toe out might add to the "dartinesss" (nice term BTW), but would suggest pulling caster into spec. first, then check and test, before tweaking another variable. FWIW,

- Tony

[Andyrew]

Chris, remind us what tires your running and how old they are? I can't remember if you said you had something OK or if it was old.

[sixnotfour]

LS Fest,, Vegas.. Exhibition Class,,, Have some Fun....

I'll be there. Leaving this Thursday. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
https://www.lsfest.com/porsche-914-ls-seat-...e-ls-fest-west/