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> Are head and cylinder gaskets compression gaskets?
stevegm
post Oct 22 2016, 01:04 PM
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I need to remove the heads off of a newly rebuilt engine (4-cylinder) I built (never run). They have already been torqued. Are the head gaskets and gasket between the cylinder and block, compression gaskets that should be thrown away (i.e., replaced with new one) after I untorque the heads?

The head gaskets will be easy to replace. But I'd have to pull the cylinders to replace the ones between them and the block.
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Mark Henry
post Oct 26 2016, 01:44 PM
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My lapping procedure is actually quite simple.

I use valve grinding compound, not because I think it's the best, but because I have a huge can of it that was given to me. I put an even coat on the sealing surface of the cylinder, place it in the head and turn it a couple times (no pressure)complete turns, then check to see that I have an even coat.
I then turn it so it facing the direction it will be installed. I grab it with both hands and rotate back and forth the limits of my wrists, I put slight downward pressure to make sure the head doesn't lift or cock in the bore.
As I start I look at the clock, I keep a steady cadence and I do the same amount of time on each cylinder. The amount of time will depend on your compound, mine is fairly aggressive and I only have to do 1-2 minutes each bore. Once I have a clear, even lap it's done.
I mark every cylinder and bore so they stay in order, very important.
Cleaning has to be spotless, again very important.

If you are doing a real good job you should also have your case bores surfaced/decked, I do this as a part of every build now, as I find many are out of spec.

The last detail is do a freaking CR check, (plus deck height) and shim it for a correct CR.
Google engine calculator and plug in the numbers, I can do the math, I don't need a calculator.
Head CC you can buy the plate kit or make one out of 1/4" clear plexi, you can get a CC syringe from a drugstore, just tell them what you want it for, tell them you don't want the needle and you want the biggest they have. PITA because 10cc is likely the biggest they have, but in a pinch it works. Just don't lose count. Oil will kill the rubber stopper, you can use water, but put a drop of Dawn dish soap in it to break the surface tension.
You can get custom shims made by RIMCO and EMW keeps a stock of shims. You can use up to 3 of the thin factory shims but no more. They must be shimed exactly the same.

That's it, I've never seen the need to go full rotations. Many years ago I talked to a swiss trained master machinist friend about my procedure and he agreed with it, BTW same guy who gave me the big can of lapping compound.
My heads never leak, at least not till it's time that they should be rebuilt anyways.
Been doing it this way for years.
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stugray
post Oct 26 2016, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Oct 26 2016, 01:44 PM) *

Head CC you can buy the plate kit or make one out of 1/4" clear plexi, you can get a CC syringe from a drugstore, just tell them what you want it for, tell them you don't want the needle and you want the biggest they have. PITA because 10cc is likely the biggest they have, but in a pinch it works.


I found one at a farm supply in the "veterinary/medicine" department.
It was ....wait for it...... 60ccs.

In my area the store is Murdoch's I don't know what you have in the GWN.
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Posts in this topic
stevegm   Are head and cylinder gaskets compression gaskets?   Oct 22 2016, 01:04 PM
injunmort   i would not disturb the base gaskets and you can a...   Oct 22 2016, 01:11 PM
HAM Inc   i would not disturb the base gaskets and you can ...   Oct 22 2016, 05:24 PM
N_Jay   The bottom are shims and should not compress. The...   Oct 22 2016, 02:47 PM
stugray   Bigger question: WHY are you using head gaskets?   Oct 22 2016, 04:56 PM
ClayPerrine   Bigger question: WHY are you using head gaskets?...   Oct 22 2016, 05:33 PM
stevegm   Bigger question: WHY are you using head gaskets...   Oct 22 2016, 08:26 PM
HAM Inc   [quote name='ClayPerrine' post='2414584' date='Oc...   Oct 22 2016, 08:33 PM
Keyser Sose   The VW tech bulletin everyone seems to refer to ...   Oct 23 2016, 11:26 AM
Dave_Darling   At one point, at least, there were also copper hea...   Oct 22 2016, 05:33 PM
injunmort   i know which gaskets op was referring to. mine are...   Oct 23 2016, 04:02 PM
stugray   i know which gaskets op was referring to. mine ar...   Oct 23 2016, 10:17 PM
Mark Henry   If you want head gaskets in one of my T4 engines f...   Oct 25 2016, 08:28 AM
ClayPerrine   If you want head gaskets in one of my T4 engines ...   Oct 25 2016, 09:09 AM
Jake Raby   The last time I used any gaskets between the cylin...   Oct 23 2016, 10:05 PM
injunmort   one generation of that phone, not ten years of pro...   Oct 24 2016, 03:05 AM
stugray   one generation of that phone, not ten years of pr...   Oct 24 2016, 08:16 AM
N_Jay   For those in the "No Gasket" world, do y...   Oct 24 2016, 07:32 AM
injunmort   yeah i saw that, i also see the manual, haynes, vw...   Oct 24 2016, 08:53 AM
Keyser Sose   Cool, but I wouldn't depend on Haynes as gospe...   Oct 24 2016, 10:09 AM
ClayPerrine   Cool, but I wouldn't depend on Haynes as gosp...   Oct 24 2016, 09:22 PM
stugray   Cool, but I wouldn't depend on Haynes as gos...   Oct 25 2016, 07:13 AM
stevegm   I didn't mean to invite a debate. This issue h...   Oct 25 2016, 09:46 AM
Mark Henry   New T4 AMC heads come with a big warning card in e...   Oct 25 2016, 09:52 AM
Jake Raby   You can lead a human to knowledge, but you can...   Oct 25 2016, 09:00 PM
The Cabinetmaker   Words to ponder   Oct 25 2016, 09:24 PM
mbseto   You can lead a human to knowledge, but you can...   Oct 26 2016, 08:34 AM
injunmort   ^well said. my experience would lead me to lap th...   Oct 26 2016, 08:57 AM
HAM Inc   The reason VW said to stop using the head gaskets ...   Oct 26 2016, 09:33 AM
Mueller   Head gaskets installed on my current torn apart mo...   Oct 26 2016, 09:55 AM
injunmort   i could be wrong but what i see is a deformed gask...   Oct 26 2016, 10:09 AM
HAM Inc   i could be wrong but what i see is a deformed gas...   Oct 26 2016, 11:20 AM
Mueller   i could be wrong but what i see is a deformed gas...   Oct 26 2016, 03:45 PM
rudedude   pretty good eyes to see improper torque   Oct 26 2016, 11:05 AM
stevegm   :popcorn: So, it sounds like I need to consider n...   Oct 26 2016, 11:57 AM
N_Jay   :popcorn: So, it sounds like I need to consider ...   Oct 26 2016, 01:59 PM
injunmort   i do use the gaskets, i think you mean aircooled v...   Oct 26 2016, 01:20 PM
ClayPerrine   There seems to be a difference of opinion here and...   Oct 26 2016, 01:33 PM
Mark Henry   My lapping procedure is actually quite simple. I...   Oct 26 2016, 01:44 PM
stugray   Head CC you can buy the plate kit or make one out...   Oct 26 2016, 02:42 PM
stevegm   Exactly. Leaving them out is not as simple as . . ...   Oct 26 2016, 02:10 PM
N_Jay   Vets will have larger syringes as they get used fo...   Oct 26 2016, 02:51 PM
Mark Henry   I've never had to find one, wife works at a ho...   Oct 26 2016, 02:57 PM
Mueller   I've never had to find one, wife works at a h...   Oct 27 2016, 09:40 AM
Mueller   I've never had to find one, wife works at a h...   Oct 27 2016, 09:41 AM
injunmort   ^that makes sense to me, in that the the exhaust s...   Oct 26 2016, 04:51 PM
Mark Henry   ^that makes sense to me, in that the the exhaust ...   Oct 27 2016, 07:42 AM
N_Jay   Thoughts! Lapping barrels to heads: Since th...   Oct 27 2016, 08:33 AM
Mark Henry   I wonder what would happen if you machined a sli...   Oct 27 2016, 08:55 AM
N_Jay   I wonder what would happen if you machined a sl...   Oct 27 2016, 09:06 AM
Mark Henry   [quote name='Mark Henry' post='2416389' date='Oct...   Oct 27 2016, 10:08 AM
ClayPerrine   [quote name='N_Jay' post='2416380' date='Oct 27 2...   Oct 27 2016, 10:58 AM
N_Jay   [quote name='N_Jay' post='2416380' date='Oct 27 ...   Oct 27 2016, 11:17 AM
mbseto   Mark, thanks for that procedure above, that's ...   Oct 27 2016, 09:05 AM
Mueller   Picture "borrowed" from brand new post o...   Oct 27 2016, 09:36 AM
Dave_Darling   Picture "borrowed" from brand new post ...   Oct 27 2016, 05:15 PM
injunmort   you guys know what i did today, i went for a drive...   Oct 27 2016, 05:11 PM
Mueller   you guys know what i did today, i went for a driv...   Oct 27 2016, 05:23 PM
Mueller   you guys know what i did today, i went for a driv...   Oct 27 2016, 06:12 PM
ClayPerrine   It is proven the gaskets work, it is also proven...   Oct 27 2016, 06:14 PM
ClayPerrine   The factory issued a service bulletin about not ...   Oct 27 2016, 05:26 PM
injunmort   i have seen it, it is part of this thread, but ref...   Oct 27 2016, 05:29 PM
injunmort   ^pretty much sums it up. i did not or any other pr...   Oct 27 2016, 06:35 PM
cuddyk   I think what's happening here is that some inc...   Oct 27 2016, 07:35 PM
ClayPerrine   I think what's happening here is that some in...   Oct 27 2016, 08:42 PM
injunmort   cuddyk , i would like to invite all ne guys to my...   Oct 27 2016, 07:50 PM
cuddyk   I'm always up for a drive and BBQ. And for res...   Oct 27 2016, 08:19 PM
N_Jay   Sorry for jumping in, but I can tell you that in ...   Oct 27 2016, 09:37 PM
timothy_nd28   My way is without question the best way. Lap the ...   Oct 27 2016, 10:04 PM
KeithVonLaws   Well said to N_Jay... One other thing that has be...   Oct 28 2016, 12:10 AM
Mark Henry   My personal engine, 102mm X 78mm, nickies with JE ...   Oct 28 2016, 12:49 AM
KeithVonLaws   My personal engine, 102mm X 78mm, nickies with JE...   Oct 28 2016, 02:23 AM
Mark Henry   "nothing really trick" of the four engi...   Oct 28 2016, 07:48 AM
Mark Henry   Some head work I posted way back when this site st...   Oct 28 2016, 01:23 AM
injunmort   "nothing really trick" of the four engin...   Oct 28 2016, 04:40 AM
N_Jay   The problem with those heads pictured was not that...   Oct 28 2016, 07:24 AM
mbseto   Tried to find that discussion mentioned upthread. ...   Oct 28 2016, 08:31 AM
DBCooper   The point that everyone here seems to have missed...   Oct 28 2016, 10:44 AM
N_Jay   This has ben fun and educational. Thanks to those...   Oct 28 2016, 11:17 AM
914_teener   This has ben fun and educational. Thanks to thos...   Oct 28 2016, 11:47 AM
DBCooper   I asked him why most people put silicone in there ...   Oct 28 2016, 12:48 PM
Mark Henry   Yep if want to use a gasket on a stock engine go f...   Oct 28 2016, 12:03 PM
stevegm   Yep if want to use a gasket on a stock engine go ...   Oct 28 2016, 12:48 PM
N_Jay   I have to agree with you on one point, you DEFINEL...   Oct 28 2016, 12:37 PM
N_Jay   Hey! Hay! I know all about the famous o-...   Oct 28 2016, 01:10 PM
Mueller   Hey! Hay! I know all about the famous o...   Oct 28 2016, 03:32 PM
Jake Raby   Hey! Hay! I know all about the famous o...   Nov 14 2016, 12:36 PM
stugray   Hey! Hay! I know all about the famous ...   Nov 15 2016, 03:45 PM
KeithVonLaws   I bet more failures occur due to Pre-ignition or d...   Oct 28 2016, 03:24 PM
Mark Henry   In my case Personally, I would like to see for m...   Oct 29 2016, 08:30 AM
DBCooper   In my case Personally, I would like to see for ...   Oct 29 2016, 08:44 AM
Mark Henry   You could do that, or go turbo Subaru, a half-to...   Oct 29 2016, 01:06 PM
DBCooper   And I almost didn't post it for fear of being ...   Oct 29 2016, 02:31 PM
ClayPerrine   RE: Are head and cylinder gaskets compression gaskets?   Oct 29 2016, 04:14 PM
Keyser Sose   I don't understand. If you don't like thi...   Oct 29 2016, 04:38 PM
injunmort   because we all like train wrecks, and i am a speci...   Oct 29 2016, 06:07 PM
stugray   Ok, I stayed out of this conversation towards the ...   Nov 14 2016, 11:37 AM
stugray   Just for future reference: Gasket failure: http:/...   Nov 17 2016, 12:56 PM
Mark Henry   Shit: http://barfblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011...   Nov 17 2016, 01:05 PM
stugray   [quote name='stugray' post='2424109' date='Nov 17...   Nov 17 2016, 04:37 PM
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