Trouble with KEP, Can't decide if I'm getting hosed Options

[aircooledboy]

Hey boys. Been lurking all these years, just no time to post.

I can't decide if Kennedy Engineered Products is screwing me, or if I'm being unreasonable. Here's my deal:
I've lost most of another short 914 driving season chasing down a clutch problem that turned out to be a broken diaphragm spring on my pressure plate. My driver is a 73 Renegade conversion with a SBC 350 V8. The pressure plate is about 5+ years old, Stage 2 from KEP, but only has 5000 miles max on (in a good year I might get to put 3000 on the car, it was in body work for 2+ years, and this year I was only able to put 200ish on it due to chasing said clutch issues). I called KEP last week and spoke to them, and ultimately decided just to have them send me a new pressure plate. They were willing to have me send them the broken unit and they would rebuild it, but no discount on a new one, and no credit for a core if I sent it to them in exchange for the new one. That pissed me off a little, but I wanted to drive my car before the beautiful fall weather was gone, so I bit the bullet and just had them send me a new one.

New plate arrives Friday, I'm pumped to get it slammed in Saturday morning, and enjoy probably the last warm weekend of the year in this part of the world. Get the car in the air, hold pressure plate up to fly wheel: IT'S THE WRONG FREAKING PLATE!!!! Grrrr. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Looking at the plate and the packaging, it's a standard Sachs 914 pressure plate. Call KEP today, talk to the same guy, he says "there are 2 ways to set up that clutch", and that's why he sent me that part. Funny, he never told me that when I was giving him my credit card number. He never asked a single question about what size my pressure plate was.

I'm not sure he's not full of shiat when he says that some V8 conversions use a standard sized pressure plate, but more importantly, he tell's me that I will have to pay to ship the wrong part back, AND shipping to get the correct part shipped, AND they will charge me for the second pressure plate, not refunding the wrong one until they have received it. For those keeping score at home, I will have paid to ship a part THREE times (to the tune of about $100) that was sent out wrong through no fault of mine, and they not are giving me so much as 1 cent off the price of the new part to compensate me for nearly new pressure plate that failed after less than 5000 miles (trust me, you can tell by looking at the failed part, it has almost no wear).

I think I'm getting bent over, but sometimes I'm not sure I trust my perspective on stuff like this when I'm buried with other things in life. What say you?

[SirAndy]

That is odd, i never had any problems with them in the past, they've always been great.

Also, on a side note, i had a Stage II in my car and it wasn't strong enough (slipping) so i went with a Stage III.

Not sure how much torque you're putting down but you're probably close to the limit for a Stage II.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[mobymutt]

No idea about the original failure, but if you are a repeat customer, I would expect them to pay the shipping for the return and reshipping the correct part. And they shouldn't wait to get the other part back.

If they don't want your business again, they should keep doing what they are doing!

[Cracker]

Well first of all, I'm sorry you're having trouble - I've been there done that! I use the KEP components in my car and push it quite hard and have had no issues. I use the Stage 2 clutch with a Stage 3 pressure plate - works great.

Regarding the part error - have you asked to speak to the owner? Being hot will probably not get you anywhere...they are the experts; you're the customer; I'd expect them to take the hit or at least split it at the very least.

Act like a mature adult when you work this out and find middle ground. Their products are good - communication might leave a little to be desired but I've never had an issue.

Best wishes!

Tony

[Keyser Sose]

I've dealt with them for years, mostly with Hobart, a lot of different products with no problem, but then had a similar issue, cracked diaphragm. They weren't interested at all.

[mepstein]

I wouldn't expect anything for a five year old part. No matter how little wear it has. The more recent sale should have been handled better by the seller. Your paying way too much if shipping is $33 each way for a single part. Many companies will not credit you back until they get their part back. Even if its their mistake. Its the way things are done now. I dont like it but its done anyway.

[whitetwinturbo]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

[whitetwinturbo]

.............show a pictue of your car or your thread build for some giggles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Mikey914]

On a 5 year old part, probably not going to get much as far as credit, but I would call to ask what's up for the replacement. I think most vendors would work with you to make it right.

[shoguneagle]

KEP has always provided excellent support especially when the Old Man was there. Maybe they have expanded and are missing all the expertise they had since the younger generation has been running it. Handling a problem depends on who you are talking too and their experience level. Clutch disk size and type is fundamental.

Have to agree with Andy and his suggestions.

Usually very knowledgeable and informative people. Have used two of their clutch packages for 914 conversions: 914-V8 and 914-Sixer Carrera 3.2. Both worked great and I do run the lighter clutch stage 1 on the the Sixer 3.2; used the stage II high performance disk on the V8.

Give them a call and discuss your problem with the owner/engineer.

[Cracker]

I failed to address the 5-year old part - I guess I thought it was obvious - at that age, KEP has no culpability. I was referring to not clarifying the proper part on the replacement. Either way, don't sweat it - it isn't worth the angst!

Tony

[McMark]

Yeah, it sucks. It's certainly not what you want to hear, and perhaps they could handle it better. But I don't see that you're being taken advantage of. But it's terribly annoying.

I know your pain. I recently had to deal (once again) with a CA gov't agency. Talked to 6 different people over the course of 1/2 day on the phone. 2 in one office, 3 in another office, and 1 more. Not one of them ever said the same thing as another person. And I was basically telling each person the same story. The worst of the six basically said there was nothing they could do and hung up on me. Finally got someone who wanted to take the time to do their job and it was all sorted out.

Moral of the story: The fact that you talked to the same guy again may be working against you. Call and talk to someone else, NOT to complain or tell them your saga (no phone operator wants to listen to you all day), but just tell them what you want. Give them the bottom line, and then add in details as they ask questions.

[Toast]

I deal with Kennedy at least a couple times a week. They do take a long time to manufacture their products. Your best bet would have probably been to send it in and have them rebuild it. It doesn't take them that long to do that and they do a great job. I usually only deal with Brett for placing orders. And you have to be very specific with what you have and what you need. It can be very easy for them to send the wrong thing by what they think that you need based on the information you gave them. That has happened with my company before also.

For being a long time customer, my company also does not get special breaks from them. They have unique great products with copyright that you can't get anywhere else. So I can't really complain about that too much.

Just give them a call back and explain the situation. They are pretty good about working things out.

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[LvSteveH]

Sorry to hear about the issues. I've dealt with KEP as much or more than just about anybody and they are good folks who do a great job with parts and service and have reasonable prices all considering.

That said, it's more complicated than it seems, as there are 3+ different pressure plate styles that could have been used with your car. One way or another obviously there may have been some communication breakdown. It happens sometimes with complex parts and as annoying as it is my focus would be to make sure the new pressure plate is correct.

If you post some pics of the parts chances are that I can help sort it out if there's a question about what you need.

As to the premature failure of the diagram, there are a few things. The most common cause is a missing or misadjusted pedal stop that allows the diaphragm to hyperextend, fatigue and fail. I like to set the stop so the clutch pedal engages pretty low off the floor. Use the factory method for setting cable tension by making sure reverse doesen't grind when going into reverse slowly after a long pause in neutral. Lastly make sure not to over tension the clutch cable. You want to take up the slack, but not preload the pressure plate, which can reduce clamping force and wear out the release bearing prematurely.

Sorry for any typos,, autocorrect was driving me nuts, so I turned off all driver aids and put my phone into race mode (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Cracker]

Ahh. A rare sighting.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

T

Sorry to hear about the issues. I've dealt with KEP as much...
Sorry for any typos,, autocorrect was driving me nuts, so I turned off all driver aids and put my phone into race mode (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[worn]

I wouldn't expect anything for a five year old part. No matter how little wear it has. The more recent sale should have been handled better by the seller. Your paying way too much if shipping is $33 each way for a single part. Many companies will not credit you back until they get their part back. Even if its their mistake. Its the way things are done now. I dont like it but its done anyway.

Or some companies will send you the right part on their nickel and tell you to keep the wrong one. I know which ones I like best. Happens a lot in my part of industry.

[aircooledboy]

I agree they didn't owe me anything on the old part. I run my own business, and I always try to do something for a client when there is even a chance that they have a legitimate complaint about something, just to let them know their satisfaction is important to me. I also understand no one is required to run their business the way I do, so I try to be open minded about what is included on the spectrum of an "acceptable" way to deal with an issue like this. That's why I was putting this out there to see what you all thought.

I'm pretty pissed that they're nicking me 3 freakin' times to ship a part that was sent out wrong because I was never told there was more than one possibility for the correct part (and it is $30 each time). I would have gladly done anything they asked to make sure they were sending the correct one if they had only told me that was a potential issue. Instead, I could visualize the guy at KEP shrugging his shoulders with a perfect IDGAF look on his face on the other end of the phone when he told me there were 2 possible correct parts, and he sent the wrong one; basically "I picked the wrong one, oh well, there goes $60 of your money". Honestly, $60 doesn't mean much to me. It just really chaps my ass that their attitude was "huh, we sent you the wrong part. It will cost you $60 to fix that, and we're gonna hold your $250 until we get the wrong part back." Not even a hint of "oops, my bad".

I fix other people's problems for a living. The irony is that doing that all day everyday sometimes makes me question my response to things like this when they happen to me. I respect and appreciate the perspective of this very diverse crew. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Toast, I thought there was a 95% chance the guy was just covering his ass when he said this part "could" be the right one in some set ups. Good to know that wasn't just a hand job. BTW, you guys really don't get a volume discount???

Steve, thanks for the heads up on the pedal stop/broken diaphragm relationship. It's very likely that's exactly what happened. For a while now I've had a "variable clutch pedal" problem. Sometimes I had enough pedal travel, sometimes I did not, and I couldn't spot any rhyme or reason to it. So, I had the stop pushed all the way back to allow more travel when it acted up. Eventually I found that I had a sheared roll pin in the clutch pedal, but there was enough left of one end of the pin that it created interference to make the pedal bind on the shaft. It always pulled the cable, but the amount was random. So, my attempt to accommodate the problem while I figured it out probably broke the pressure plate. Good to know.


As always, thanks to everyone for the input. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/monkeydance.gif)

[Toast]

We do get a volume discount. We have set pricing with them. But we don't get any discount on shipping. And we have to pay for shipping there and for them to send us stuff.

Next time you talk to them, just ask if they will cover the next shipment in. Doesn't hurt to ask. They usually dont offer free shipping but they given it to us before.