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> D-Jetronic: Using My New CHT Rich / Lean Test Box, And it shows pretty much what I though I knew was wrong...
pbanders
post Nov 4 2016, 06:58 PM
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Some of you have seen the recent posting about the CHT spacer that helps warm-up, and the discussion that followed. I proposed making a test box that would use the CHT to adjust the mixture to either rich or lean while running to see what was really happening. The idea of inserting a pot into the CHT circuit is as old as the hills when it comes to D-Jet, but this is the first time I've enabled both rich and lean adjustment, plus put in a test point so I can monitor the resistance of the CHT as I drive around.

I just did my first run, there will be more, but I have a few interesting results and observations already.

First, there has been a lot of conjecture and theory about what's going on with the 914 D-Jet during warm-up and hot starting (where the car has sat for 5+ minutes after stopping). The conjecture for crappy warm-up was that the CHT heated up to quickly, leaning out the mixture and causing crummy idle. Hence, the spacer, a factory (VW) solution. Space the CHT above the head, slow the thermal conduction, and fool the ECU into thinking the engine is cooler and needs more fuel. Turns out it works pretty well, but doesn't fix the hot start problem.

I conjectured that the spacer made the hot start problem worse, because the sensor cooled off faster than the head, and made the mixture too rich. I came up with a way to start the car (key off , 1/4 throttle open, key on, start) that seemed to verify this, as more air with more fuel worked.

But, as we learn in science, experiment trumps theory. So, I went out with the box today, here's what I found.

Warm-up with the spacer proceeds well. Resistance of the CHT starts at about 2200 ohms and drops to around 400 ohms in the first 5-10 minutes of driving (sort of a cool day here in Phoenix). The fun begins when you turn the key off. According to my theory, the CHT sitting away from the head cools off, and the resistance increases, causing a lean hot start condition.

Not so, not at all. Key off the resistance of the CHT plummets, dropping from 400 ohms down to 100 ohms in just a few minutes. Why? Duh, there's no cooling air, the fact that it's sitting away from the head is irrelevant. When you try to restart, the CHT thinks the car is way hotter, and wants a leaner mixture, and it won't start for crap. The core of the engine is at nearly the same temperature it was before you turned it off after 5 minutes, it wants a much richer mixture.

Enter the "rich" potentiometer knob. I can dial in exactly the same resistance I saw when I went key off. When I do that, the car starts right up. So, no, it's not too rich, it's too lean.

I also played with the knob in a number of other idling situations. It was very easy to make a quick adjustment when the idle bogged from any loads (e.g. fresh air fan, heater blower, lights) to richen the mixture slightly, and the idle stabilized very well.

I have to stop the car and turn the motor off to measure the CHT resistance, but I can monitor the voltage on the CHT continuously, and compare that to the SPICE model I did for the circuit years ago. I'll do that in the future.

Oh, and I played with using the lean adjustment, but it was never needed. The 914 always wanted more fuel, more, more, more!

Right now, I'd have to say that adding a 500 ohm series pot to the CHT that you can adjust from the driver's seat is pretty awesome. I know others have done this before and said the same thing, I'm saying, "me, too".

I'll be experimenting with this setup through the week, will report more on what I find.
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Posts in this topic
pbanders   D-Jetronic: Using My New CHT Rich / Lean Test Box   Nov 4 2016, 06:58 PM
BeatNavy   Good info, Brad! And it makes perfect sense t...   Nov 4 2016, 07:17 PM
914four   This helps me to understand that even a perfectly ...   Nov 4 2016, 07:29 PM
pbanders   This helps me to understand that even a perfectly...   Nov 4 2016, 08:53 PM
cary   This helps me to understand that even a perfectl...   Nov 5 2016, 07:28 AM
JamesM   Not so, not at all. Key off the resistance of th...   Nov 4 2016, 08:45 PM
pbanders   Not so, not at all. Key off the resistance of t...   Nov 4 2016, 08:52 PM
pbanders   OK, a couple of pics of the setup. Right now, the ...   Nov 4 2016, 09:21 PM
Java2570   Great info, as always, Brad! Glad to see you p...   Nov 5 2016, 07:41 AM
pbanders   Great info, as always, Brad! Glad to see you ...   Nov 5 2016, 03:22 PM
jasons   Let me know if you need another data point in town...   Nov 5 2016, 08:19 AM
TX914   That is totally excellent. Thanks for sharing your...   Nov 5 2016, 08:36 AM
pbanders   That is totally excellent. Thanks for sharing you...   Nov 5 2016, 03:29 PM
stugray   The heat soak happens because the cooling air sup...   Nov 5 2016, 04:14 PM
GregAmy   Install a timed latching relay that automatically ...   Nov 5 2016, 09:58 AM
pbanders   Stu, very nice, thanks for posting that, I'll ...   Nov 5 2016, 06:24 PM
alexkirkham   wouldn't it just make sense to connect a time ...   Jun 14 2018, 10:09 AM
Chris914n6   Would it make sense to remove the sensor from the ...   Jun 14 2018, 01:08 PM
troth   Seems this is only a problem because VW tried to...   Jun 14 2018, 02:17 PM
Dave_Darling   It's a well-known phenomenon called "heat...   Jun 14 2018, 03:34 PM
GregAmy   Been thinking about this problem, pretty much each...   Jun 26 2018, 07:49 PM
saigon71   :bump: I wanted to resurrect this thread... Dro...   Sep 5 2018, 05:30 AM
Dredwin   Reviving this thread since I had the same issue. ...   Aug 16 2020, 09:21 PM
saigon71   After battling this problem for years, this was my...   Aug 17 2020, 04:26 AM
Dredwin   After battling this problem for years, this was m...   Aug 17 2020, 10:46 AM
pbanders   Hi, long time no post. I was in the garage and fou...   Apr 27 2022, 05:35 PM
914_teener   Hi, long time no post. I was in the garage and fo...   Apr 27 2022, 07:30 PM
emerygt350   Very interesting! So glad you are resurrectin...   Apr 27 2022, 07:00 PM
r_towle   I think that depending upon you average temp range...   Apr 27 2022, 10:07 PM
ddire333   Thanks, going to test this method over the weekend...   Apr 28 2022, 06:17 AM


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