unmolested bone stock real six's - how many?, unmolested '70-71 914-6s - how many left? Options

[larryM]

just curious

1. - has anyone counted the number of "real sixes" that are roadworthy, or in true-back-to-stock-resto process, that are essentially "as delivered" bone stock & never "improved" with newer or later engines, transaxles, body & suspension mods, etc?

2. - how many real sixes '70-72 in any form are there that are road worthy or track-ready right now?

3. - how many real sixes upgraded to some form of "471" or GT-like prep, with flares, etc, that are currently road worthy or track-ready?

is there a short list of VINs & owners for either category of these real sixes?

.

[TheCabinetmaker]

You could do a vin search in all 50 states, but that might get expensive. Since there would be a lot of cars owned by folks who are not on any internet forum or don't want their cars listed. I think that's a list that can't be completed

[RARE 6]

Given your criteria, "bone stock", a VIN search won't help. Other than personal contact with individual owners, there's no way determine stock vs. mods. We drove ours away from the dealer brand new and it still wouldn't qualify. Minor suspension and carb mods and a tensioner upgrade would kick us out though I do have all the OEM parts.

[fixer34]

I think this topic came up once before. Define 'bone stock' or original/unmolested.

Mine has poly front bushings and stainless brake lines.
Front hood and targa top were replaced (wear/damage) with similar vintage.
Misc parts replaced due to wear, but with stock items.
Otherwise, same as it was when new (AFAIK-second owner).

'70 /6 #826

[PancakePorsche]

The 914-6 owners registry on this site would give a good indication. The jury is out on how many sixes still actually exist and how many of them are let's say "100% stock configuration" as per COA.

[gereed75]

Forget the bone stock for a minute.

forget Europe for a minute.

My guess looking at the numbers:

1700 imported
410 gone - 30% - wrecked, rotted, neglected
200 of the remaining converted to race cars or Chalons or something

That leaves maybe 1100 potentially road going drivers??? Just did a quick count on the registry - about 825 listed. 75% of remaining listed seems a big percentage of the surviving population but it may be reasonable (there are many Euro cars on the registry that would bring down this US only estimate, but most are US).

Of those 1100 survivors maybe 5% all original??

I would thing these numbers come down for ROW - ie a bigger percentage of the US population survived.

Anybody else here have better insight into typical old car fleet stats??

[1stworks]

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5904408995.html

[0396]

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5904408995.html

-6 looks pretty good. Unfortunately at this time of year. I don't think there's a lot of people willing to step up for this one.

[SirAndy]

unmolested '70-71 914-6s - how many left?

I know of a few ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Peashooter]

Mine is pretty unmolested. It was repainted once but everything else is 1970 vintage other than maintenance items. It does have race style seat belts that have been in there since the 70's and I am looking for a good set of stock seat belts. Pulling the engine this winter due to oil leaks but it runs well and I have no plans for any modifications.

[johnhora]

info here

http://www.stazak.com/914reg/

[maxwelj]

I agree with Rare 6. I bought mine new, but tie rods, Carrera tensioners, fuel pump and Air cleaners would keep it from being exactly stock. And then there is the cold start priming system that was removed by the dealer as a recall item.

[larryM]

excellent - Thanks all - nice info (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

and also thanks to john for the link to Glen's lists

when i said "unmolested" or "as delivered" - i didn't intend it to mean PCA "Preservation" status

mea culpa - i should really have said something like "maintained to as-delivered" - i.e. 110 hp non-counterweight T engine, stock brakes, trans, wheels, suspension, body & interiors - aftermarket oem-equivalent parts, uipholstery & paint OK,

- i didn't mean "never had a wrench on it or paint touch-up or a re-painted to oem"

I was looking for perspective on the marketplace & perceived valuations after reading various adverts claiming such as "all-original & matching numbers; over 100K in receipts invested in perfect restoration, etc "

AND reading C&D piece that suggested that a younger segment of the present day "vintage" market trend is more interested in appearance and modernization than originality - (heat, A/C & 400 hp trump original guts)

- which might suggest that a GT-look 914 with a LS3 or Subie 3.0 or 3.6 & tiptronic on 18" alloys might become a hotter seller than an anemic 110 hp stock six on 5x15s ??


> to the point below about RoW cars - long ago when I was researching my car thru PCA Germany contacts, i learned that most 914s there had long since rusted away & been junked due to the salt used on winter roads - the TUV has strict stds about roadworthy-ness, as do a few USA States <

p.s.
(i grew up in Iowa - saw plenty of rusted-in-half 914s & 911s, in those days that you could not lift at the jacking point (even owned a few); as well as 240Zs where the struts were no longer attached to any upper body structure) - i am aware that some folks like such barn-finds and love the resurrection challenge - not me

My guess looking at the numbers:

1700 imported
410 gone - 30% - wrecked, rotted, neglected
200 of the remaining converted to race cars or Chalons or something

That leaves maybe 1100 potentially road going drivers??? Just did a quick count on the registry - about 825 listed. 75% of remaining listed seems a big percentage of the surviving population but it may be reasonable (there are many Euro cars on the registry that would bring down this US only estimate, but most are US).

Of those 1100 survivors maybe 5% all original??

I would think these numbers come down for ROW - ie a bigger percentage of the US population survived.

[gereed75]

This thought continues to intrigue me so I spent a few minutes on Glenn's registry.

I went through the first two pages of early cars that included photos and categorized them based on these criteria:

Stock - no apparent mods and looked to be maintained or re-done with a nod towards originality

Light mods - Narrow body cars with no apparent desire to remain stock (changed mirrors, wheels, valences etc)

Heavy mods - Mostly wide body cars; 471 mods or GT look cars

Race - obvious race cars

Here are the numbers -

97 foto's viewed; 33 Stock looking cars (34%); 17 Light Mods (17.5%); 30 Heavy Mods (31%); 17 Race Cars (17.5%).

So going back to my original guesses - 1700 imported with 30% "gone" leaves 1290.

Applying the results of the two page foto survey:

34% of 1290 "stock" = 439
17.5% of 1290 "lightly modded" = 226
31% of 1290 Heavily Modded = 398
17.5% of 1290 race cars = 226

So by this quick survey, there are around 665 cars in original or somewhat near original shape.

I was completely taken by surprise at the percentage of modded/flared/race cars!! Nearly 50% of the population.

A valid criteria for "original" could be matching numbers and few mods. My guess might be that half of the 439 "stock" cars have matching numbers with largely stock motors. So from that I would guess that the number of original or near original cars is maybe 220.

Close enough for 914world work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) This 220 number would seem to me to jive with the number of "for sale" or known "original" cars that we see out there in the public domain. At that number, and with the amount of dealers and collectors and enthusiasts, the $65,000.00 - $100,000.00 prices for nice cars seem "supportable".

I think the biggest place for error is in the assumption of 30% gone. This could be a lot higher. Any other insights out there?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[rick 918-S]

Any thoughts on how many have been purchased and shipped out of the country? That could seriously effect the number left in the states.

[gereed75]

Yea, If you give some credence to the 220 number, then having 20 cars or so going across the pond is significant. That would be a reasonable guess I think - 10 to 20.

Looking back, I count 12 cars out of my sample that are ROW (all Euro but 1 Nippon). Not sure exactly how that effects the numbers really.

In addition, some significant percentage of cars registered were last heard from in the 70's. Certainly some of those are gone. In general, that drops the US number down some, probably right in the 200 range.

Not officially authoritative, but a decent SWAG in the absence of real numbers.

[lalee914]

As for how many are left, I think the number is higher than a lot of people would expect. My best guess is somewhere around 70% (plus or minus a bunch) of these cars exist somewhere in the world in some state. With prices being so high lately lots of cars that should have been crushed are being subjected to very extensive and expensive restorations.

Prices for 914/6s in Europe are considerably higher than prices in the US.

I have been tracking advertisements for these cars for a lot of years now and currently have information on almost 1600 cars. Every year I find at least 10 to 20 new cars that I didn't know existed.

The market for 914/6s is global. Currently many US 914/6s are being shipped back to Europe. Not long ago, I got a request for information from a guy in Sweden who had just bought a 914/6 out of Japan. He wanted to know if I had any info on his car. My records showed that his car was sold out of North Carolina in the mid 1990s as a parts car due to terminal rust. He sent me photos showing a concour quality car.

My old 914/6 just sold at auction in Salzburg. I sold it to a guy in Detroit and when he sold it years later it ended up in Switzerland. Not sure who bought it this time.

I know of a few European /6s that are currently in the US. Most seem to have been imported many years ago.

Here is a link to a small study I did last year about modifications to 914/6s

http://p914-6info.net/Odd_Statistics.htm

Larry
www.p914-6info.net

[gereed75]

Larry. Thanks for checking in. Your site is a great contribution to the community and I had not seen your survey results.

Yours used a bigger sample size from a different data base than my quick one. the nembers seem very comparable. My race car definition was a bit more "strict" than yours. I only included obvious race cars. But the vast majority of cars in my "heavily modded" category would fit your race car category as most of them were GT modded cars and most had roll bars/cages. Combining my two categories matches your race car category numbers perfectly.

At any rate, I do not see a disparity in the findings. I used the exact same estimate of 70% of cars produced still exist. I would not be surprised if that number is a bit high, but still both SWAGs seem reasonable, especially surprising as they were arrived at independently.

Your insight into how international the market is is very interesting

Cool!!

[lalee914]

Hi GEREED75,
It was interesting to see how close your estimates were to mine using different databases and sample sizes. I guess that puts some validity to our estimates.

Larry

[gereed75]

Yea daddy...give us a briefcase and two stoplights from home and we are experts!!