Exhaust ports and sealing...., ..how do you know? Options

[rmital]

not sure I get the reference (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

..the chop stick story pops up every once in a while (happened about 10ish years ago)...it's from the "what not to do" techniques while working on a 914. trying to find top dead center poking a chop stick thru your spark plug hole. I cringe just thinking about it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

Do any of you use any sealant of any kind? or is it only HEAD-COPPER-EXHAUST

I don't know of any common sealants that can stand the temperatures seen by the exhaust ports. Just head/copper/exhaust.

--DD

[falcor75]

Mounted the drivers side HE today.... The good news is that I didnt need a hose to listen for a leak.... The bad news is that I could easily feel it with my hand.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

[yeahmag]

You need to do the two tried and true methods. File the HE so they are flat and in plane with one another AND heat the copper gaskets to "just red" and let air cool. This is assuming there isn't damage somewhere in the system (head or HE).

[falcor75]

You need to do the two tried and true methods. File the HE so they are flat and in plane with one another AND heat the copper gaskets to "just red" and let air cool. This is assuming there isn't damage somewhere in the system (head or HE).

Both of those are done already. I think the pipe catches on the head at the outside bolts and doesnt meet the copper seal properly....

[914_teener]

Permatex makes a copper high temperature sealant that I have used sucessfully. You can Google it.

I still file the HE's and then put a bead of the stuff after the gaskets go in.

Fit the HE in and torque carefully.

[yeahmag]

I have cursed many a back yard mechanic that did that... Spend the extra time to get it to seal up without bandaids.

[914_teener]

I have cursed many a back yard mechanic that did that... Spend the extra time to get it to seal up without bandaids.

I don't claim to be anything other than that!

[McMark]

It's common for them To catch on the edge. You can use a pry tool to push th offending pipe into place.

[N_Jay]

Do any of you use any sealant of any kind? or is it only HEAD-COPPER-EXHAUST

Metal to metal

[N_Jay]

On this topic:
Is there really any difference between the early and late sealing rings?

They have different part numbers, but I thought the exhaust ports were all the same.

Yes, but it's negligible. The early ones have a slightly smaller ID. You'd be hard pressed to identify one vs the other without having them next to each other.

Any issue using the older ones?
I have found them a bit less expensive.

[Amphicar770]

If you can get hold of an evap smoke machine, they are awesome for finding all sorts of leaks from exhaust to AC. I picked up a nearly new OTC one on evilbay cheap.

I did not use sealant but you do want to apply liberal quantity of anti-sieze to the exhaust studs as breaking of those will lead to all sorts of heartache.

[rgalla9146]

It's common for them To catch on the edge. You can use a pry tool to push th offending pipe into place.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Once you've determined which cylinder is leaking loosen the nuts slightly
then use a screwdriver or the similar to push the tube to the proper position and
tighten.

Also... use a straightedge to determine if there is an issue at the sealing edges of the
header tubes

[cwpeden]

I've always used a straight edge too.

However, the center distance on my SS exchangers is not the same as the heads.
So when I put the pipes up to the head they need to be pushed together about a 1/4 inch.
The next time I took the exchangers off it was obvious that it made a difference.
I made them flat to within .0015 on the bench using glass, bearing blue and feeler gages and there was maybe 90% sealing on the copper.
After squeezing the pipes to the right location they were around .010 inches out of plane.

My situation may be unique but there was no way I was going try and bend the SS exchanger!

[falcor75]

I flattened the stub pipes last summer using a piece of thick milled flat piece of steel and 1200 grit sandpaper. With one stub completely flat against the steel piece the other had a max deviation of 0,1 mm so they should be ok. My sealing issues seem to be from the the fact that the centre of the stubs are too closer together.

Will have to see what I can figure out to fix it today.



This is how I solved the leakfinding. Made up a 3 mm plate and brazed two male compressor fittings to it. Set the pressure to 0,5-1 bar and just connect the hose to the cylinder I want to test....

[falcor75]

Torquing the nuts to 18 Nm (14 ftlbs) i have very small leak on cyl 2 and big one at cyl 1. Air pressure set to as low as possible. The fit around cyl 1 seems better than cyl two but it still leaks at cyl one. Yaay for fiddly exhausts.

[falcor75]

A few hours of adjustment later and I have a very tiny leak on both cyl 1 and 2 with the heaterbox pressurized to 0.5 bar (around 7-8 psi) Would this be acceptable?
I dont think the exhaust backpressure will ever get that high....

[IronHillRestorations]

Exhaust pressures will be way more than .5 bar, think mild explosion.

It should seal completely. More leveling with the big file. I don't think you cut enough material with 1200 grit sand paper.

I've never heated the copper sealing rings, ever. I'm not going to say it doesn't help, I've just never had to do it.

You can use a little grease to stick the copper ring in it's place, and I always use anti seize on the exhaust studs.

[bdstone914]

On this topic:
Is there really any difference between the early and late sealing rings?

They have different part numbers, but I thought the exhaust ports were all the same.

Anyone? . . . Anyone? . . . .

. . . . Beuler?

Yes, but it's negligible. The early ones have a slightly smaller ID. You'd be hard pressed to identify one vs the other without having them next to each other.

I thought the difference was size of the hole and the 2.0L used the larger hole.

[falcor75]

Got brand new seals in the mail today. I annealed them and mounted them with new copper nuts. #1 cylinder still has a leak thats not hearable except if I use a hose to listen right at the port. #2 is leak free.

Will do the other side tomorrow, need some more copper nuts lock nuts.