New member - introduction and questions... |
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New member - introduction and questions... |
pugface |
Feb 26 2017, 07:06 PM
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#1
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 8-January 17 From: Boerne, TX Member No.: 20,735 Region Association: None |
Hi guys
New member here, figured I should introduce myself, as I may be asking lots of questions! I've wanted a 914 since seeing one of the college kids driving one when I was in high school - in the 80's. Unfortunately, living in the salty Midwest, I don't think I saw another one in person since the 80's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I've also always wanted to learn more about how to fix and restore cars. And, I have a son in middle school that hopefully can learn a little as well. Like most of you, my budget is NOT unlimited (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) so I was looking for a car that needed some work, but not too much. And a price to reflect that. I found and bought something this month that seemingly fit the bill - a project, but one that starts, shifts, and stops. all pieces (and more) there, if not all the same color. A 1973 1.7 retaining its D-Jetronic, and NO rust. Well, pretty much no rust... So, as to the problems, when I bought I was told it won't idle once it warms up. He thought it needed the timing set. From what I can tell, it is running very rich. The oil level was high, when I changed it, it smelled of gas. Car ran well enough for me to drive it a few miles around 'the block', but I wouldn't want to go any further than that. So, with 914world as a resource, I found many things to check. But, I must admit that I am a novice at this - so to check fuel pressure, I ordered a simple fuel pressure tester kit from Amazon. But this is the first time I have attempted this, so I worry I am doing it wrong? I hooked up the fuel pressure gauge to the test point on the fuel rail between 1 & 2 with a clamp. When I turn the key, and the pump fires for a bit, it runs right up to 30 psi. I then disconnected the coil wire and cranked the engine per Haynes. The gauge jumped to 70 psi! Do I have it hooked up right? Of course, if my fuel pressure is that far off, it would explain a lot of the poor running. Adjusting the regulator per Haynes made little difference, so either my test is wrong, or the regulator is blown. Now, when I got the car, I also inherited two other 914's worth of stripped parts to various degress. I loooked through the boxes and found a second regulator, but it looked pretty sad and crusty. I installed it just to see what would happen. This time, I crank the engine, and fuel goes everywhere. My cheap Amazon fuel pressure kit came with some hose I used to splice in - that hose ruptured! WTF. I'll go into twon this week and find some high-pressure fuel hose - in the meantime, does it sound like I had the gauge in the right place? If so, I'll order a new regulator and give it a try next weekend. Thanks pf Oh, wait, you guys are going to do the THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS... thing, aren't you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Here's a pic - long way to go |
ndfrigi |
Feb 26 2017, 07:16 PM
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#2
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,928 Joined: 21-August 11 From: Orange County Member No.: 13,474 Region Association: Southern California |
welcome to 914world and sickness with this toy! well sir you have a very good starting project! and yes the 70psi fuel pressure doubled the standard 30 average psi for an FI 914-4.
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mramber |
Feb 26 2017, 07:18 PM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 87 Joined: 14-April 13 From: Minneapolis, MN Member No.: 15,768 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)
The rust thing is a big deal, keep looking because you will find it. Look in the longs, the floor pans and behind the firewall pad if it is still there. I'm like you, I wanted a 914 since I was a kid and 5 years ago I finally got mine. It's a labor of love and sometimes frustration. Take it a piece at a time. |
mtndawg |
Feb 26 2017, 07:35 PM
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 413 Joined: 26-January 09 From: Granite Bay, Ca Member No.: 9,985 Region Association: None |
"Like most of you, my budget is NOT unlimited"
Who here has an unlimited budget? Looks pretty good, I'd like to see the longs and engine. |
pugface |
Feb 26 2017, 09:47 PM
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#5
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 8-January 17 From: Boerne, TX Member No.: 20,735 Region Association: None |
Thanks guys!
Engine is dirty, longs looks good, light surface rust in the passenger side long, but really, amazingly little rust There was some rust at some point (in hellhole and other spots), but for better or worse, it has been cut out and replaced by an amateur body-man. Not the worst repair job, but certainly not seamless (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I was really so focused on avoiding rust that I didn't look as close as I should have on the quality of 'rust repair' - oh well, lesson learned. I figure a solid car to work on, I don't have to feel guilty about messing with it. It has already been repainted (insides are Marathon Blue, outside it looks Ivory, but there are also some replacement panels in yellow and blue! ), so if we do a color change, we aren't making anything worse. I'd like to get my son involved. He has interest in helping, but I can't see him doing a lot of wrenching. But he is already a better painter than me, I'd like to see him get this car back down to one color (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
Blue6 |
Feb 26 2017, 10:24 PM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,034 Joined: 3-October 13 From: SoCal Member No.: 16,470 Region Association: Southern California |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) remember these are driver projects. Take your time and invest when you can.....
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McLovin |
Feb 27 2017, 12:33 AM
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 102 Joined: 31-August 16 From: Tallahassee, FL Member No.: 20,360 Region Association: South East States |
If you have some debris in your fuel line, or our fuel line is crimped, or otherwise restricted for some reason, like maybe the rubber is breaking down (where you have rubber), then it's like having high blood pressure due to narrowed arteries in your body. You can't adjust that out with the pressure regulator because the pressure is not caused by the regulator itself....in other words....you could probably even remove the regulator itself and you'd still have high pressure. It might even be in the return line. So try unhooking all of it and blowing through the line to see if the line is as clear as you think it is. Replace all rubber lines, and clogged filters. Make sure lines are proper diameter. This all assumes you're getting an accurate reading from your pressure gauge in the first place. |
falcor75 |
Feb 27 2017, 06:47 AM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,579 Joined: 22-November 12 From: Sweden Member No.: 15,176 Region Association: Scandinavia |
I had a kink in the return line under the tank (newly installed hose) and the pressure buildup would not let the regulator work as intended.
The cheap way of testing this is to buy 6 feet of 8 mm fuel hose, connect it to the outlet of the regulator and run the other end into a fuel can or whatever you have that will collect the fuel for you in a safe manner. Then bypass the fuel pump relay and check the pressure again. With the regulator passing the fuel into the cannister you should see a normal fuel pressure if the problem lays with the return line. |
Cairo94507 |
Feb 27 2017, 07:16 AM
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#9
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Michael Group: Members Posts: 9,725 Joined: 1-November 08 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 9,712 Region Association: Northern California |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) Looks like a nice starting point. Don't get overwhelmed with issues. Tackle them one at a time and try to keep it off jack stands for now.
I believe a good approach is to first assess the condition of the chassis- rust- to determine the extent of rust you will need to deal with. Then I look at electrical issues to make sure you don't end up with an electrical fire. Fuel system gets overhauled before you try to drive the car, because to many 914s have burned up from cracked fuel lines. Then brakes and general maintenance items like a complete tune-up, valve adjust, etc. Finally, tires if they are just old and cracked. Cosmetics is the last thing to play with. Have fun and cheers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
Shadowfax |
Feb 27 2017, 08:38 AM
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#10
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Show us the meaning of haste Group: Members Posts: 509 Joined: 19-January 15 Member No.: 18,340 Region Association: South East States |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) from Louisiana
There is another member here from Boerne. I've bought a few parts from him. Real nice guy who is willing to share his knowledge. |
Dave_Darling |
Feb 27 2017, 12:46 PM
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#11
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
The high fuel pressure almost certainly means that the return is somehow blocked. It could be blocked by a collapsed line, or (more likely IMHO) something like the fuel pressure regulator being plumbed backwards. IIRC, I made an early version of my hose diagram that showed the incorrect plumbing on that, and a number of people have used that to their detriment.
--DD |
pugface |
Feb 27 2017, 06:56 PM
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#12
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 8-January 17 From: Boerne, TX Member No.: 20,735 Region Association: None |
Is this the diagram?
http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/technical_...4_20FI_diag.htm Another member in Boerne? I'll have to keep an eye out - it's a fairly small town I'll go and check all the fuel lines this weekend, and see if there are any problems. The PO had actually started fixing in the order Cairo 94507 suggested - the fuel lines are new, new brake lines, new vacuum hoses, some minor rust removal already done. Thanks! pf |
pugface |
Mar 1 2017, 07:01 PM
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#13
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 8-January 17 From: Boerne, TX Member No.: 20,735 Region Association: None |
So, I'm waiting for my magnetic spark plug sockets to get here (other post) to continue work, I thought I'd do a visual check of the fuel lines as you guys suggest
I don't really see anything - I have new lines from the PO, not necessarily stock. The one thing I notice is a tight radius from the rail to the return line. I took a picture to ask about it here, and upon inspecting it by hand, it is kinked! Looks like that's the problem, now to fix... |
pugface |
Mar 1 2017, 08:29 PM
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#14
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 8-January 17 From: Boerne, TX Member No.: 20,735 Region Association: None |
Wait, if that is coming off the passenger fuel rail, then something is odd here
That would mean that the kink is before the tester, and that fuel pressure should be low, right? Or that the lines are backwards, in which case the regulator is hooked up backwards? |
Cracker |
Mar 1 2017, 09:16 PM
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#15
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,148 Joined: 2-February 10 From: Atlanta (area) Member No.: 11,316 Region Association: South East States |
Welcome. Drove through Boerne with family in tow last Summer - nice place to call home. Good luck on the teener...
Tony |
JeffBowlsby |
Mar 1 2017, 11:14 PM
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#16
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914 Wiring Harnesses Group: Members Posts: 8,490 Joined: 7-January 03 From: San Ramon CA Member No.: 104 Region Association: None |
Look up Mark Heard here, great guy and knows 914s well. He is in Boerne. screen name is 914sixer.
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ndfrigi |
Mar 2 2017, 02:10 AM
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#17
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,928 Joined: 21-August 11 From: Orange County Member No.: 13,474 Region Association: Southern California |
So, I'm waiting for my magnetic spark plug sockets to get here (other post) to continue work, I thought I'd do a visual check of the fuel lines as you guys suggest I don't really see anything - I have new lines from the PO, not necessarily stock. The one thing I notice is a tight radius from the rail to the return line. I took a picture to ask about it here, and upon inspecting it by hand, it is kinked! Looks like that's the problem, now to fix... the picture looks like a rubber fuel line supply from fuel pump to injector fuel rail (rear passenger - # 3 & 4 injector). |
pugface |
Mar 4 2017, 11:15 AM
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#18
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 8-January 17 From: Boerne, TX Member No.: 20,735 Region Association: None |
I had a kink in the return line under the tank (newly installed hose) and the pressure buildup would not let the regulator work as intended. The cheap way of testing this is to buy 6 feet of 8 mm fuel hose, connect it to the outlet of the regulator and run the other end into a fuel can or whatever you have that will collect the fuel for you in a safe manner. Then bypass the fuel pump relay and check the pressure again. With the regulator passing the fuel into the cannister you should see a normal fuel pressure if the problem lays with the return line. Thanks - I tried this today. I bypassed the relay by jumping pins 30 and 87. Dumping into a gas can instead of the stainless return lines, I get a normal ~30 psi. Looks like I have a kink somewhere downstream - I'll back it on ramps and investigate underneath. |
ndfrigi |
Mar 4 2017, 11:35 AM
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#19
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,928 Joined: 21-August 11 From: Orange County Member No.: 13,474 Region Association: Southern California |
I had a kink in the return line under the tank (newly installed hose) and the pressure buildup would not let the regulator work as intended. The cheap way of testing this is to buy 6 feet of 8 mm fuel hose, connect it to the outlet of the regulator and run the other end into a fuel can or whatever you have that will collect the fuel for you in a safe manner. Then bypass the fuel pump relay and check the pressure again. With the regulator passing the fuel into the cannister you should see a normal fuel pressure if the problem lays with the return line. Thanks - I tried this today. I bypassed the relay by jumping pins 30 and 87. Dumping into a gas can instead of the stainless return lines, I get a normal ~30 psi. Looks like I have a kink somewhere downstream - I'll back it on ramps and investigate underneath. do you have the 3 port fuel pump? maybe it has some issue with it? maybe you can remove the rubber fuel before ss engine fuel line and also check if it will drain fuel from from tank return line. |
pugface |
Mar 5 2017, 09:14 PM
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#20
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 8-January 17 From: Boerne, TX Member No.: 20,735 Region Association: None |
So, I traced it back to the fuel tank. The Previous Owner had replaced all the fuel lines, and when he put the gas tank bank in, it kinked the return line.
I drained and pulled the tank, and sort of carefully re-seated the line so it doesn't kink while installing the tank. I measured around 30 psi now with fuel pump running. I bolted everything back up, and double checked the pressure - 30 psi with pump running (but engine not on) I started the car and it seemed to run much better, but as it warmed up, it started getting worse. While the engine was running I saw the fuel pressure needle moving a bit erratically, and then after a few minutes, it was lowering. I was trying to adjust the regulator to keep up, but I don't think that is the issue. At the end, it was running under 20 psi with the engine on. I turned the car off, and checked it by jumping the relay, and with engine off, I have a steady 30 psi Let me guess - I ended up kinking the other line under the tank while being so careful with the first one? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Or, perhaps a problem that has been there the whole time, just masked by the high fuel pressure so I didn't notice before. |
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