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> Intermittent starter issues...
SKL1
post Apr 13 2017, 11:21 AM
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I ordered the "kit" from Pelican and all I got was a relay as well- just came yesterday so I have to call them to return it. Now their website says the kit is out of stock!

Maybe a Ford part is in my future too...
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GregAmy
post Apr 13 2017, 11:27 AM
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QUOTE(Jeffs9146 @ Apr 13 2017, 01:04 PM) *


The ford relay is a bypass to the starter relay, not a solenoid to pull a solenoid like the Bosch is. It sends direct 12v to the main starter power circuit and requires less ign power to trigger.

It's overkill for the job, for sure. In the end, the whole point of the activity is to discontinue powering the starter solenoid through the ignition switch. Whatever it takes... :shrug:
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SKL1
post Apr 15 2017, 06:42 PM
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Well, ordered the "kit" from both Amazon and Pelican and all I got was a relay! Looks like the Ford part will be the next attempt!

I notice in one of the wiring diagrams there is a big wire from the "solenoid" to the + battery terminal, and there isn't on the other one. I assume you need the wire to the battery, correct? ( I hate electrical issues!!!)
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Jeffs9146
post Apr 15 2017, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE(SKL1 @ Apr 15 2017, 05:42 PM) *

Well, ordered the "kit" from both Amazon and Pelican and all I got was a relay! Looks like the Ford part will be the next attempt!

I notice in one of the wiring diagrams there is a big wire from the "solenoid" to the + battery terminal, and there isn't on the other one. I assume you need the wire to the battery, correct? ( I hate electrical issues!!!)


There are two ways to wire the Ford relay. One is large red from the battery on one large post and the other large post to the starter post, ign yellow to the trigger post on the Ford relay. The other is the diagram way which is very similar to the Bosch where the relay triggers the starter relay.
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Mark Henry
post Apr 15 2017, 09:52 PM
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Ummm....you do realize that the battery post and the big post on the starter is joined by a big fuchs'n wire basically making it the same thing.
My bug the big wire goes from the battery to the starter to the + on the alternator.
It's all the main positive.

You don't need a wire from the battery...it's already there.
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euro911
post Apr 15 2017, 11:37 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with the Ford type relay.

I recently converted my 5k portable generator to electric start, and even though the starter push-button is rated at 30 amps, I installed the relay ... mainly because I will also be triggering the generator start with a closure signal from the solar system's inverter (should the back-up batteries fall below a programmed voltage threshold).

I think the relay was about $20. from O'Reilly's Auto Parts (with a lifetime warranty) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-7300-1488601047_thumb.jpg)
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HalfMoon
post Apr 16 2017, 08:06 AM
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QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Apr 15 2017, 11:52 PM) *

Ummm....you do realize that the battery post and the big post on the starter is joined by a big fuchs'n wire basically making it the same thing.
My bug the big wire goes from the battery to the starter to the + on the alternator.
It's all the main positive.

You don't need a wire from the battery...it's already there.


Well, I'm nicely confused now.
Is this a valid wiring diagram or no?
Attached Image

Or is the one Mark Henry posted years ago the tits?
Attached Image
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Mark Henry
post Apr 16 2017, 09:27 AM
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Do it my way, carefully bend the mount bracket, careful not to stress the bracket to the plastic solenoid housing and enlarge the hole and it will bolt right to the bottom starter stud/nut. Buy or make a male with ring hole quick connect. The only thing my drawing doesn't show is the stock heavy wire battery to starter that's already there .
The bracket must be grounded for the solenoid to work.

Not a single hole is drilled or wire cut.

I don't agree with the top drawing because it's running the heavy wire to the solenoid then to the starter. A lot of heat is generated at that connection and that could become a failure point. It will work and the Ford solenoid should be fine, but why tempt fate when you don't have to.
Takes a poopload of amps to turn over a starter.
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KELTY360
post Apr 16 2017, 01:13 PM
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QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Apr 16 2017, 07:27 AM) *

Do it my way, carefully bend the mount bracket, careful not to stress the bracket to the plastic solenoid housing and enlarge the hole and it will bolt right to the bottom starter stud/nut. Buy or make a male with ring hole quick connect. The only thing my drawing doesn't show is the stock heavy wire battery to starter that's already there .
The bracket must be grounded for the solenoid to work.

Not a single hole is drilled or wire cut.

I don't agree with the top drawing because it's running the heavy wire to the solenoid then to the starter. A lot of heat is generated at that connection and that could become a failure point. It will work and the Ford solenoid should be fine, but why tempt fate when you don't have to.
Takes a poopload of amps to turn over a starter.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Mark's method is clean, simple and works great. No wires are cut or holes drilled so it's easily reversible although I can't imagine why you would. Never had a starting problem since I followed that diagram and I did the same installation on a friends 914 with the same results. Those Ford solenoids are a dime a dozen at old car swap meets...well, maybe $5 but offer $2 and that will usually do it.
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euro911
post Apr 16 2017, 01:43 PM
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HalfMoon
post Apr 16 2017, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Apr 16 2017, 11:27 AM) *

Do it my way, carefully bend the mount bracket, careful not to stress the bracket to the plastic solenoid housing and enlarge the hole and it will bolt right to the bottom starter stud/nut. Buy or make a male with ring hole quick connect. The only thing my drawing doesn't show is the stock heavy wire battery to starter that's already there .
The bracket must be grounded for the solenoid to work.

Not a single hole is drilled or wire cut.

I don't agree with the top drawing because it's running the heavy wire to the solenoid then to the starter. A lot of heat is generated at that connection and that could become a failure point. It will work and the Ford solenoid should be fine, but why tempt fate when you don't have to.
Takes a poopload of amps to turn over a starter.


Good stuff Mark :-)
What gauge wire do you think for this application?
TY
D
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SKL1
post Apr 16 2017, 10:27 PM
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Well, my Ford solenoid is coming from Amazon so I'll be referring to these diagrams this week for sure!

Great info guys!
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Jeffs9146
post Apr 16 2017, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE(euro911 @ Apr 16 2017, 12:43 PM) *

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I agree with this method but there is no need for the coil wire!
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Mark Henry
post Apr 17 2017, 07:06 AM
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QUOTE(euro911 @ Apr 16 2017, 03:43 PM) *

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Sorry I don't agree.

That is how it's done on a late model Ford, this will not work on a 914. The ford starter is not switched, take away the solenoid and the ford starter would run engaged continuously. I believe the Ford starter the bendix is a simple inertia engage where the Bosch starter is a solenoid therefore electromagnetic engagement of the bendix drive.
I guess you could put a simple jumper wire in, but why if the factory + cable is already there.

Also I agree you don't need or want the wire to the coil.

KISS, don't add unnecessary complexity to the circuit.
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SKL1
post Apr 20 2017, 10:36 PM
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OK, I know we're beating a dead horse here, but what gauge wire for wires from new Ford solenoid to starter? The heavy should be 10 or 12? Ignition wire from solenoid to starter 14 or 16?

Gonna wire this up tomorrow...
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euro911
post Apr 21 2017, 12:29 AM
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The heavy wire needs to be a large gauge wire to carry the load current. I believe the OEM wire from the battery is at least #2 AWG. (Verify against the OEM wire gauge from the battery).

You can reuse the original (yellow) wire from the ignition switch (which I believe is a #10 AWG), attach it to the small 'S' terminal on the new relay.

I modified/annotated a diagram found in the WWW

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Mark Henry
post Apr 21 2017, 05:15 PM
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QUOTE(euro911 @ Apr 21 2017, 02:29 AM) *

The heavy wire needs to be a large gauge wire to carry the load current. I believe the OEM wire from the battery is at least #2 AWG. (Verify against the OEM wire gauge from the battery).

You can reuse the original (yellow) wire from the ignition switch (which I believe is a #10 AWG), attach it to the small 'S' terminal on the new relay.

I modified/annotated a diagram found in the WWW

Attached Image

Sigh.... I'll never understand why people need to make something simple more complex. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
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euro911
post Apr 21 2017, 06:05 PM
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I think this diagram doesn't leave any unanswered questions for someone who has never done it.

Sigh ... The internet has a lot of wiring diagrams that don't show all the details (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)
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Hans Jan
post Apr 21 2017, 07:01 PM
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The ignition switch on my car is dying as well.
I have ordered the Amazon relay (although I just read here that it comes as a relay only, and not a complete kit (bummer)).

Also ordered a new ignition switch from AA.

One of the tech articles describes nicely how to install a new ignition switch in newer models. Is anyone here aware of such an article for the 1972 model year?

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euro911
post Apr 21 2017, 08:14 PM
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They're all the same
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