No longer up for consideration Options

[sixaddict]

I don't normally like to get into the battles on opinions, but clearly the owner needs to revise pricing on this to reflect what it is .........I know Craig well enough to know he was not part of any deception, but he hardly needs me to stand up for him.....he does what we all do occasionally miss something because we are too busy.

I feel the current pricing is not rational and would also lead one to the incorrect conclusion this is real....

Just another opinion but this one could be legally tricky. I feel there is probably a way to handle it to make it "clean" but altered VINs are clearly not legal.
Oh nice car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[My 914]

well said

[Blue6]

The owner clearly wanted to dump this ride on an unsuspecting buyer. With the vin switch, the car is not legal. Only a matter of time before a well trained Highway Patrol officer digs deeper than a registration check, impounds it, and has it crushed. He who is holding the hot potato when time is called, will be the loser. Several threads on early 911's with the same results.
Now as far as a race car. Cut the suspect VIN out, stamp a chassis number for a log book, and your good to go. Assuming the 914-6, 914-4, and engine numbers are all clean.
And yes, knowledge of the VIN switch and sale of the car, would constitute fraud.

[rhodyguy]

IBTL

[RFoulds]

I got banned from the 914 Forum on Facebook for stating this, so I am prepared to be flamed.

This car is not an example of "VIN Swapping" Yes VIN swapping is illegal. In vintage cars, this is considered by builders to be a "re-bodied car"

the majority of cars that win at Pebble beach are re-bodied cars. in vintage restoration shops, if you OWN both cars, and you want the tags from the rusty shitty car moved to the restored chassis, it is considered ethical and legal. DMV does not care as long as there are not two cars with the same VIN, and neither was stolen. the rusty tub should now have the other VIN and be crushed.
Randy Ema, who builds Pebble beach winning Dusenbergs for Jay Leno, says often: bring me the VIN, registration and the pictures, and I will build you an original Dusenberg.

Had this car been properly documented as a rebodied car, and had the builder used the correct year tub as a donor, and been alert to the differences in early versus later cars, this probably wouldnt have been such an isssue.

I was just at a car show on Friday, where an original Maserati Mille Miglia was on display, valued at $1.4 million. the entire body and engine are non-original.

[era vulgaris]

Epic post # to temp being banned and flamed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Apologies for the interruption...carry on!

[mepstein]

That vin got put into the wrong body since that body wasn't just not a six, it couldn't pass for a six.

[rick 918-S]

I got banned from the 914 Forum on Facebook for stating this, so I am prepared to be flamed.

This car is not an example of "VIN Swapping" Yes VIN swapping is illegal. In vintage cars, this is considered by builders to be a "re-bodied car"

the majority of cars that win at Pebble beach are re-bodied cars. in vintage restoration shops, if you OWN both cars, and you want the tags from the rusty shitty car moved to the restored chassis, it is considered ethical and legal. DMV does not care as long as there are not two cars with the same VIN, and neither was stolen. the rusty tub should now have the other VIN and be crushed.
Randy Ema, who builds Pebble beach winning Dusenbergs for Jay Leno, says often: bring me the VIN, registration and the pictures, and I will build you an original Dusenberg.

Had this car been properly documented as a rebodied car, and had the builder used the correct year tub as a donor, and been alert to the differences in early versus later cars, this probably wouldnt have been such an isssue.

I was just at a car show on Friday, where an original Maserati Mille Miglia was on display, valued at $1.4 million. the entire body and engine are non-original.

It fascinates me to see cars that are recreated by hand from a vin # and somehow that is ok but a guy can't take a rusted hulk not worthy of repair, purchase shell, re-body the car and have it somehow called less than legal.

It also interests me to see cars that have rusted well beyond the point of safe repairs using large sections from other cars and that is somehow accepted as an original car. Where is the line when repairing a rusted hulk using a donor car as a platform for repairing a more valuable car? Not saying I agree or disagree. Just always wondered.

In the collision business clipping was always considered not legal and not safe. ( half of one car and half of another) I never did that but know of a shop that did it all the time.

Also in the collision business the vin. number is often supplied on the bill of sale from the salvage yard so there is no doubt the parts are not from a stolen car. Does that happen when a rusted hulk is restored using a donor car?

The car in question here clearly was not done to a standard that would be acceptable to the restoration crowd. But what if it was? What if it was a 10 point restoration using a body in white donor like the Camaros and Mustangs and MGB's? Interesting these are accepted and legal.

[mepstein]

I got banned from the 914 Forum on Facebook for stating this, so I am prepared to be flamed.

This car is not an example of "VIN Swapping" Yes VIN swapping is illegal. In vintage cars, this is considered by builders to be a "re-bodied car"

the majority of cars that win at Pebble beach are re-bodied cars. in vintage restoration shops, if you OWN both cars, and you want the tags from the rusty shitty car moved to the restored chassis, it is considered ethical and legal. DMV does not care as long as there are not two cars with the same VIN, and neither was stolen. the rusty tub should now have the other VIN and be crushed.
Randy Ema, who builds Pebble beach winning Dusenbergs for Jay Leno, says often: bring me the VIN, registration and the pictures, and I will build you an original Dusenberg.

Had this car been properly documented as a rebodied car, and had the builder used the correct year tub as a donor, and been alert to the differences in early versus later cars, this probably wouldnt have been such an isssue.

I was just at a car show on Friday, where an original Maserati Mille Miglia was on display, valued at $1.4 million. the entire body and engine are non-original.

It fascinates me to see cars that are recreated by hand from a vin # and somehow that is ok but a guy can't take a rusted hulk not worthy of repair, purchase shell, re-body the car and have it somehow called less than legal.

It also interests me to see cars that have rusted well beyond the point of safe repairs using large sections from other cars and that is somehow accepted as an original car. Where is the line when repairing a rusted hulk using a donor car as a platform for repairing a more valuable car? Not saying I agree or disagree. Just always wondered.

In the collision business clipping was always considered not legal and not safe. ( half of one car and half of another) I never did that but know of a shop that did it all the time.

Also in the collision business the vin. number is often supplied on the bill of sale from the salvage yard so there is no doubt the parts are not from a stolen car. Does that happen when a rusted hulk is restored using a donor car?

The car in question here clearly was not done to a standard that would be acceptable to the restoration crowd. But what if it was? What if it was a 10 point restoration using a body in white donor like the Camaros and Mustangs and MGB's? Interesting these are accepted and legal.

Money and a name change. It's not vin swapping, it's a rebody (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

My wife didn't have a boob job, she had body augmention.

[Blue6]

If only Boyd Coddington was still alive. He could shed some light on how the government feels about VIN Switched vehicles. Maybe someone knows one of his customers who got shafted.

[deemsriddle]

I got banned from the 914 Forum on Facebook for stating this, so I am prepared to be flamed.

This car is not an example of "VIN Swapping" Yes VIN swapping is illegal. In vintage cars, this is considered by builders to be a "re-bodied car"

the majority of cars that win at Pebble beach are re-bodied cars. in vintage restoration shops, if you OWN both cars, and you want the tags from the rusty shitty car moved to the restored chassis, it is considered ethical and legal. DMV does not care as long as there are not two cars with the same VIN, and neither was stolen. the rusty tub should now have the other VIN and be crushed.
Randy Ema, who builds Pebble beach winning Dusenbergs for Jay Leno, says often: bring me the VIN, registration and the pictures, and I will build you an original Dusenberg.

Had this car been properly documented as a rebodied car, and had the builder used the correct year tub as a donor, and been alert to the differences in early versus later cars, this probably wouldnt have been such an isssue.

I was just at a car show on Friday, where an original Maserati Mille Miglia was on display, valued at $1.4 million. the entire body and engine are non-original.

It fascinates me to see cars that are recreated by hand from a vin # and somehow that is ok but a guy can't take a rusted hulk not worthy of repair, purchase shell, re-body the car and have it somehow called less than legal.

It also interests me to see cars that have rusted well beyond the point of safe repairs using large sections from other cars and that is somehow accepted as an original car. Where is the line when repairing a rusted hulk using a donor car as a platform for repairing a more valuable car? Not saying I agree or disagree. Just always wondered.

In the collision business clipping was always considered not legal and not safe. ( half of one car and half of another) I never did that but know of a shop that did it all the time.

Also in the collision business the vin. number is often supplied on the bill of sale from the salvage yard so there is no doubt the parts are not from a stolen car. Does that happen when a rusted hulk is restored using a donor car?

The car in question here clearly was not done to a standard that would be acceptable to the restoration crowd. But what if it was? What if it was a 10 point restoration using a body in white donor like the Camaros and Mustangs and MGB's? Interesting these are accepted and legal.

Money and a name change. It's not vin swapping, it's a rebody (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

My wife didn't have a boob job, she had body augmention.

At one time, Porsche had several 914 bare bodies in white. If you could prove the car was totaled and the car would be destroyed, they would sell you one and even stamp your VIN number in the proper places. As I recollect the cost was $10,000.00

Many of the Packards, Pierce Arrows , Duesenbergs etc were too Politically Incorrect to drive as the Depression left more and more people starving and out of work. They were very large and heavy duty. Many of them were bought by farmers, their custom coachwork removed and scrapped. They were then used as farm trucks. So the magnificent winner at Pebble Beach Concours might be a figment of someone fertile imagination. The Cowl, engine, radiator and front running boards, may look like the originals or even be restored originals, but the passenger compartments are based loosely on sketchy information available.



Ir

[SirAndy]

Where is the line when repairing a rusted hulk using a donor car as a platform for repairing a more valuable car?

To me this has never been a gray area:

- If you swap everything that is still usable to a different chassis, it's a swap. If you also swap the VIN over, it's a VIN swap.

- If you cut out all the cancer on a rusted hulk and replace it with good panels, you restored the rusted car.


Anything else is just semantics trying to justify a VIN swap.

Even if the car in question had been done "correctly" using a '70 /4 chassis, it would still be a /4 with a bunch of /6 parts and a swapped VIN.

And the real problem here is when someone then comes around and conveniently "forgets" to tell people about the swap and demands original /6 money for the car.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[GaroldShaffer]

Where is the line when repairing a rusted hulk using a donor car as a platform for repairing a more valuable car?

To me this has never been a gray area:

- If you swap everything that is still usable to a different chassis, it's a swap. If you also swap the VIN over, it's a VIN swap.

- If you cut out all the cancer on a rusted hulk and replace it with good panels, you restored the rusted car.


Anything else is just semantics trying to justify a VIN swap.

Even if the car in question had been done "correctly" using a '70 /4 chassis, it would still be a /4 with a bunch of /6 parts and a swapped VIN.

And the real problem here is when someone then comes around and conveniently "forgets" to tell people about the swap and demands original /6 money for the car.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Bingo!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[boxsterfan]

Where is the line when repairing a rusted hulk using a donor car as a platform for repairing a more valuable car?

To me this has never been a gray area:

- If you swap everything that is still usable to a different chassis, it's a swap. If you also swap the VIN over, it's a VIN swap.

- If you cut out all the cancer on a rusted hulk and replace it with good panels, you restored the rusted car.


Anything else is just semantics trying to justify a VIN swap.

Even if the car in question had been done "correctly" using a '70 /4 chassis, it would still be a /4 with a bunch of /6 parts and a swapped VIN.

And the real problem here is when someone then comes around and conveniently "forgets" to tell people about the swap and demands original /6 money for the car.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Amazing how that little detail didn't make it in.

[EdwardBlume]

I had a 10th or so cut out and welded into Dads car. I could have dropped a volleyball through the HH. Glad to have it on board. I won't sell it but if my family ever does, the buyer should know it was repaired, and the pass door was repaired 80s (back in) and the drivers fender fixed - Dad backed his boat into it. Full disclosure. Of course today it's all fixed and looks great, it is what it is.

[mepstein]

The guys buying up the early 912's to rebody the early S 911's are more careful about the details.

[Chris914n6]

If it's 10% tub -6 and 90% tub -74 then the VIN needs to say -74.

A vintage restore may be only 10% original but the other 90% is NEW replacement parts.

Buying a 912 to rebody a 911S is a VIN $wap.

[mepstein]

Buying a 912 to rebody a 911S is a VIN $wap.

I know. We don't swap vin's at our shop. We mostly build hot rods and backdates. But with the prices of early 911's, it was bound to happen.