1.7 dies right after starting Options

[r_towle]

You may be getting enough fuel from the cold start injector to run for a second and then die. So, get four glass baby food jars, pull the injectors out and while they are still connected to fuel and power, place them all into the glass jars. Remove center lead from distributor cap and from coil to prevent any spark at all,
Turn car over for 30 seconds.
Do you have fuel in the jars?
Is the same amount in every jar?

[averagejoe71]

So good news. I found the problem. The red wire for the pertronix was broken at the butt of the connecter. So now that I got it on. The car starts after putting my foot on the throttle alittle and I can drive it around and it'll idle but the idle will slowly go down until it stalls and dies. Any ideas on that?

Also I like to thank everyone for your help. I'm so grateful this community exist and I would be lost without it.

[BeatNavy]

So good news. I found the problem. The red wire for the pertronix was broken at the butt of the connecter. So now that I got it on. The car starts after putting my foot on the throttle alittle and I can drive it around and it'll idle but the idle will slowly go down until it stalls and dies. Any ideas on that?

Also I like to thank everyone for your help. I'm so grateful this community exist and I would be lost without it.

Still sounds like it's running too rich to me, but then again fuel starvation is also still a possibility. You need to start doing some tests to narrow your focus. The one Rich suggested above can help eliminate fuel starvation as the likely culprit. Any other evidence that it's running too rich? Smell gas? Wet plugs? Still could be MPS out of adjustment or not properly holding vacuum, CHT issue, excessive fuel pressure, leaking injector(s), etc., etc..

[averagejoe71]

So good news. I found the problem. The red wire for the pertronix was broken at the butt of the connecter. So now that I got it on. The car starts after putting my foot on the throttle alittle and I can drive it around and it'll idle but the idle will slowly go down until it stalls and dies. Any ideas on that?

Also I like to thank everyone for your help. I'm so grateful this community exist and I would be lost without it.

Still sounds like it's running too rich to me, but then again fuel starvation is also still a possibility. You need to start doing some tests to narrow your focus. The one Rich suggested above can help eliminate fuel starvation as the likely culprit. Any other evidence that it's running too rich? Smell gas? Wet plugs? Still could be MPS out of adjustment or not properly holding vacuum, CHT issue, excessive fuel pressure, leaking injector(s), etc., etc..

Another discovery happened. My relay board never Grosvenor and I believe was missing a relay. So I got a spare from German shops who had one and then bought 3 brand new relays. Second I check the plugs and they aren't wet but they do smell like fuel. Also the red G light is on every time I turn the key. Next step is to check the fuel pressure. I noticed that there is a screw on the fuel rail where it looks like I can put a fuel Guage. Has anyone tried that?

[euro911]

Yes, Joe ... the port on the injector rail is where you would attach a pressure gauge.

Another thing you can try, bypass the cold-start injector and see if that helps.

[averagejoe71]

Awesome I'll connect it to a gauge then. Is the cold start valve next to the oil filler neck correct? Also here's a pic of one of the spark plugs, if that leads to anything.

[euro911]

Awesome I'll connect it to a gauge then. Is the cold start valve next to the oil filler neck correct? Also here's a pic of one of the spark plugs, if that leads to anything.

The plug looks like you're running rich. Was is dry or wet?

... and yes, the cold start valve is attached at the front of the air plenum near the oil filler - it has two fuel hoses running to it (red thingie in the pic) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.pelicanparts.com-7300-1496940530.1.jpg)

You can unplug the electrical connector and see what happens, and if that doesn't help, physically bypass it by removing the hoses and joining them together with an appropriate sized tube and tighten the hose clamps.

[averagejoe71]

Awesome I'll connect it to a gauge then. Is the cold start valve next to the oil filler neck correct? Also here's a pic of one of the spark plugs, if that leads to anything.

The plug looks like you're running rich. Was is dry or wet?

... and yes, the cold start valve is attached at the front of the air plenum near the oil filler - it has two fuel hoses running to it (red thingie in the pic) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.pelicanparts.com-7300-1496940530.1.jpg)

You can unplug the electrical connector and see what happens, and if that doesn't help, physically bypass it by removing the hoses and joining them together with an appropriate sized tube and tighten the hose clamps.

They were dry and I'm trying to find the valve right now. Also what is this since mine is disconnected.

[BeatNavy]

That's your Auxiliary Air Valve (AAR) or sometimes called supplementary air valve. That lead is what warms it up so it will close after about 10 minutes of engine running. It is there to provide additional air the engine needs when cold (it is sort of a controlled vacuum leak that shuts itself off after roughly 10 minutes). If yours is disconnected your AAR isn't going to close (or at least not as fast as it normally would). That means you'll have a higher idle for longer than necessary. Given you're probably running too rich, that's probably somewhat off-setting the AAR not closing quickly (assuming the engine will run that long). Also, I believe if you ground that lead (hit it against something else) it's going to blow one of your fuses on the relay panel (IIRC) (and then your fuel pump won't run). I may be incorrect, but that's what I seem to recall. In any event, either hook that lead back up or don't let it ground with the car running.

The plugs look sooty. My guess is still too rich. I think the cold start valve is possible culprit (or one of them), but it's more likely CHT, MPS, or fuel pressure. Those just seem to fail most often and/or cause a rich condition that will actually kill the engine as it warms up.

You really should go here and read this site: https://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/djetparts.htm

[averagejoe71]

That's your Auxiliary Air Valve (AAR) or sometimes called supplementary air valve. That lead is what warms it up so it will close after about 10 minutes of engine running. It is there to provide additional air the engine needs when cold (it is sort of a controlled vacuum leak that shuts itself off after roughly 10 minutes). If yours is disconnected your AAR isn't going to close (or at least not as fast as it normally would). That means you'll have a higher idle for longer than necessary. Given you're probably running too rich, that's probably somewhat off-setting the AAR not closing quickly (assuming the engine will run that long). Also, I believe if you ground that lead (hit it against something else) it's going to blow one of your fuses on the relay panel (IIRC) (and then your fuel pump won't run). I may be incorrect, but that's what I seem to recall. In any event, either hook that lead back up or don't let it ground with the car running.

The plugs look sooty. My guess is still too rich. I think the cold start valve is possible culprit (or one of them), but it's more likely CHT, MPS, or fuel pressure. Those just seem to fail most often and/or cause a rich condition that will actually kill the engine as it warms up.

You really should go here and read this site: https://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/djetparts.htm

So the resistance on the CHT is at 1700 and the fuel pressure is 30 psi when cranking to when the car is on. Maybe my pertronix is bad?

[TheCabinetmaker]

So good news. I found the problem. The red wire for the pertronix was broken at the butt of the connecter. So now that I got it on. The car starts after putting my foot on the throttle alittle and I can drive it around and it'll idle but the idle will slowly go down until it stalls and dies. Any ideas on that?

You are running full rich. I have not read this full thread. Have you put a vacuum on the manifold pressure sensor? Where is the knob on the ecu? All the way clockwise?

[euro911]

30 PSI is good.

Pertronix units won't fail intermittently ... if they die, they stay dead.

When you state your AAR is disconnected, are you saying the hoses are disconnected, the electrical lead is disconnected, or both?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) bone up on Brad Anders' D-Jet troubleshooting tips

Did you check to see if the injectors are spraying? (into clear vessels)?

3 items are required to run ... fuel, air and spark ... (all in the proper quantities, of course)

[BeatNavy]

You are running full rich. I have not read this full thread. Have you put a vacuum on the manifold pressure sensor? Where is the knob on the ecu? All the way clockwise?

Good question on the ECU knob, Curt.

He did use one of Tangerine's kits to repair the MPS diaphragm, which was apparently ruptured, but we don't know how much out of spec it could be at this point.

[TheCabinetmaker]

Thanks Rob. His symptoms are indicative of a poorly adjusted or damaged mps.

Joe, did you adjust the mps with a wideband O2?

[averagejoe71]

So good news. I found the problem. The red wire for the pertronix was broken at the butt of the connecter. So now that I got it on. The car starts after putting my foot on the throttle alittle and I can drive it around and it'll idle but the idle will slowly go down until it stalls and dies. Any ideas on that?

You are running full rich. I have not read this full thread. Have you put a vacuum on the manifold pressure sensor? Where is the knob on the ecu? All the way clockwise?

Where is the knob on the ECU?

[averagejoe71]

Thanks Rob. His symptoms are indicative of a poorly adjusted or damaged mps.

Joe, did you adjust the mps with a wideband O2?

Haven't adjusted at all.

[averagejoe71]

30 PSI is good.

Pertronix units won't fail intermittently ... if they die, they stay dead.

When you state your AAR is disconnected, are you saying the hoses are disconnected, the electrical lead is disconnected, or both?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) bone up on Brad Anders' D-Jet troubleshooting tips

Did you check to see if the injectors are spraying? (into clear vessels)?

3 items are required to run ... fuel, air and spark ... (all in the proper quantities, of course)

The electrical lead

[Rand]

His symptoms are indicative of a poorly adjusted or damaged mps.

He said he vacuum tested the MPS, but dang I still keep going back to the MPS too! (When that fails it cause maximum richness.) Maybe the hose is bad or not connected to the correct vacuum port?

Quick way to answer this: If you pull the vacuum hose off the MPS does it behave any differently?

[TheCabinetmaker]

The adjustment knob is located on the top, drivers side, of the ecu. It may have a rubber cover over it.

[averagejoe71]

His symptoms are indicative of a poorly adjusted or damaged mps.

He said he vacuum tested the MPS, but dang I still keep going back to the MPS too! (When that fails it cause maximum richness.) Maybe the hose is bad or not connected to the correct vacuum port?

Quick way to answer this: If you pull the vacuum hose off the MPS does it behave any differently?

When I disconnect the hose the car intermittently starts to die.